Chris and Dave, Thank you for bringing the concern up. However, I don’t think the concern of this tweet is valid, and also the complaint of “StreamNative controls the roadmap” sounds ridiculous to me.
First of all, under the Apache Way, PMC controls the roadmap. Lots of StreamNative team members are long-time ASF contributors. In relation to adhering strictly to the ASF policy, we understand it very well and we follow the Apache Way. To be more specific, as Dave mentioned in his email, we understand that the Apache Way says “If it is not on the dev list, it doesn’t happen”. That’s exactly how our team members make contributions and participate in the community. We not only ask our team members to follow the Apache Way, but also encourage our users, customers, and partners to participate in the community in the same manner. To iterate, all the discussions/proposals made in the dev mailing list must be approved/rejected by the PMC. Hence the PMC has the ultimate say (not StreamNative) in the direction of the project. Your false accusation of StreamNative controlling the roadmap indicates that either you don’t fully understand how the decision is made in ASF or you think way too much of StreamNative :) Secondly, EVERYONE can contribute to the project roadmap. PMC approves/rejects proposals by casting its votes. This is how the ASF community works and how the ASF maintains vendor-neutral. No one except PMC controls the roadmap but EVERYONE has the freedom to propose and contribute. To elaborate more on the process, every PMC member has the free right and should be encouraged to talk to the broader community to discuss ideas. They bring ideas back to the mailing list for discussion. We work with Pulsar users and customers every day. We observe and learn what the users are doing, discussing, and requesting. We then bring the ideas back as proposals or encourage the users/customers to propose the ideas directly in the mailing list which as discussed above, to be approved/rejected by the PMC. At StreamNative, we are extremely fortunate to work with the PMC members, committers, and contributors who help and guide people to contribute to the project roadmap and empower the community. If anyone is interested in how the Ambassador Program works, I would encourage everyone to sign up for the program to help us grow the adoption of Apache Pulsar. Lastly, my humble suggestion - if you are really passionate about Pulsar, let’s do something positive for the community instead of passing complaints and creating false accusations. You are welcome to submit a PIP or PR, talk to the users in the community to hear what the users really need, improve the software, and organize a meetup, etc. I am more than happy to help you get started contributing. - Sijie On Fri, Dec 10, 2021 at 12:57 PM Chris Latimer <ch...@chrislatimer.com> wrote: > Saying that tweet implies that SN wants to control the roadmap is putting > it mildly. It is very clearly stating that StreamNative controls the > roadmap and that the way to get involved and help shape the technology is > by engaging with SN via their Ambassador program. > > On Fri, Dec 10, 2021 at 1:47 PM Dave Fisher <w...@apache.org> wrote: > > > > > > On Dec 9, 2021, at 3:24 PM, Sijie Guo <guosi...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > Dave - I don't think SN presents the community. We just shared out > > insights > > > on community progress. Also, if you looked into our past blog posts, we > > > have been pointing people to the Pulsar website and Slack channel. > > > > This tweet https://twitter.com/streamnativeio/status/1469366308022013953 > > from today implies SN wants to control the roadmap. > > > > In the Apache Way the project roadmap is discussed on the dev list. If > > it’s not on the dev list it didn’t happen. > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > > > - Sijie > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 12:13 PM Dave Fisher <w...@apache.org> wrote: > > > > > >> OK. I see the new name. > > >> > > >> My concern is about SN posting blogs that are about community news > > without > > >> telling readers where the whole Pulsar community can be found. > > >> > > >> > > >>> On Dec 9, 2021, at 6:18 AM, Dianjin Wang <djw...@streamnative.io > > .INVALID> > > >> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> I want to sync the blog status, the update has been done. > > >>> > > >>> Best, > > >>> Dianjin Wang > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 2:34 PM Sijie Guo <guosi...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >>> > > >>>> Hi Dave, > > >>>> > > >>>> Will follow up tomorrow morning (Pacific Time). > > >>>> > > >>>> - Sijie > > >>>> > > >>>> On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 9:35 PM Dave Fisher <wave4d...@comcast.net> > > >> wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>>> Hi Sijie, > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Thanks for handling this issue. I’ll check in my morning. There > was a > > >>>>> reference on the Community Newsletter as well. Please check that > too. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Best Regards, > > >>>>> Dave > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Sent from my iPhone > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> On Dec 8, 2021, at 9:24 PM, Sijie Guo <guosi...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Dave, > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> I think that is a mistake. We already caught it. Dianjin is fixing > > it. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> - Sijie > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 11:41 AM Dave Fisher <w...@apache.org> > > wrote: > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> This is great news! > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> However the ending of the blog post [1] does not follow the > Apache > > >> Way > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> This bullet point is misleading and serves to split the > community. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> • Join the 2022 Pulsar Ambassador Program and work directly with > > >>>> Pulsar > > >>>>>>> PMCs and top contributors to co-host events, promote new project > > >>>>> updates, > > >>>>>>> and build the Pulsar community in your city. Contact Us: > > >>>>>>> ambassa...@streamnative.io > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> (1) This mailing list (dev@pulsar.apache.org) is the one and > only > > >>>> place > > >>>>>>> to work directly with the whole of the Apache Pulsar community. > > >>>>>>> (2) If you engage in this unofficial, vendor-specific > “Ambassador” > > >>>>> program > > >>>>>>> you are not growing the whole and miss connecting with most of > the > > >>>> true > > >>>>>>> Apache Pulsar community. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Please rewrite or remove this divisive bullet point. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Here is a blog post about how Apache is supposed to work. [2] And > > >> more > > >>>>>>> about the Apache Way [3] > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> FYI - PMCs is plural for PMC. Apache Pulsar is one of 200+ Apache > > >>>> PMCs. > > >>>>>>> PMC’s have members who are individuals. Here are definitions of > > roles > > >>>>> [4]. > > >>>>>>> The community consists of people who are in all of these roles. A > > >>>>> project > > >>>>>>> is supposed to be managed as described here. [5] > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> All The Best, > > >>>>>>> Dave > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> [1] > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>> > > >> > > > https://streamnative.io/blog/community/2021-12-07-pulsar-hits-10000-github-stars-milestone/ > > >>>>>>> [2] > > >>>>>>> > > >>>> > > https://blogs.apache.org/foundation/entry/the-apache-way-to-sustainable > > >>>>>>> [3] https://www.apache.org/theapacheway/index.html > > >>>>>>> [4] https://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#roles > > >>>>>>> [5] > https://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#management > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> On Dec 7, 2021, at 9:36 PM, Yu <li...@apache.org> wrote: > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Hi Pulsar enthusiasts, > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Our community has been growing ever-faster since it became a > > >>>> top-level > > >>>>>>> project of the ASF in 2018. > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Recently, Pulsar hits 10, 000 Github stars milestone! We would > > like > > >>>> to > > >>>>>>> thank every stargazer for joining us on the journey. More > > >> importantly, > > >>>>>>> thank you to every Pulsar user, contributor, and committer for > > making > > >>>>> this > > >>>>>>> happen! > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Here is a glance at the vibrancy of the Pulsar community: > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> For more details about Pulsar's community growth, recent > updates, > > >> and > > >>>>>>> future plans, see here. > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Cheers, > > >>>>>>>> Anonymitaet > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>> > > >> > > >> > > > > >
