Hi,
The Onyx idea is great. Some benchmarks would help, though.
Like Slf4J, it adds pattern matching interpretation that can have
undetected human errors.
For some applications, log performance is really important.
But for a lot of users, the chore of changing log frameworks and
managing dependencies is what they really care.
Instead of using it inside of Struts, why not donating it to a yet
established log framework?
Some of the already too many log frameworks should really come together
and provide compatible user APIs.
Users should be able to change a dependency and the imports and have
everything working without changing every log statement.
It is not an advantage of an open source web framework to have an
internal logging wrapper.
Just adds nedded configuration and a need to understand it when
debugging inside the Struts code.
Best Regards,
Gabriel
Em 06-06-2014 09:06, Johannes Geppert escreveu:
Hi all,
I can understand Lukasz to avoid a maybe not necessary dependency.
But on the other hand why reinvent this logging facade if there already
exists a good and widely used solution within the ASF which is flexible
enough?
I think we should not care about base stuff like logging, better
concentrate on struts features, I mean what has logging to do with struts
or xwork?
@grobmeier
Is it possible to use Log4j2 as facade and the user can choose Slf4j with
log4j1?
Or better is there any limitation for the user if we decide to use Log4j2
as the logging facade?
This onyx stuff looks like a advantage and may some developer likes it and
some not.
For me it looks like a maybe usefully feature for the users but may not on
the web framework site.
May this should better donated as a log4j2 plugin.
Best Regards
Johannes
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2014-05-27 7:51 GMT+02:00 Lukasz Lenart <lukaszlen...@apache.org>:
I think we are talking about two different aspects.
First: user perspective and in that case users can use whatever
logging layer they want, SLF4j, Log4j, etc. And using XW Logger isn't
prohibited but using it in app isn't recommended approach IMHO. They
shouldn't depend on custom logging mechanism like Logger and it
supposed to be said clearly in the docs (it isn't but it can be easily
improved ;-)
Second: framework shouldn't depend on any concrete implementation to
avoid user confusion and potential problems with many different
logging layers used inside one app. But as a author I want to have a
tool to help me debugging problems inside the framework, I don't want
to spend time on figuring out which logging library should I use - no,
there is already one simple Logger interface and I'm obligated to use
- that's it!
The current approach with tiny XW Logger facade fits in the both cases
very well and I don't want to change that. I just wanted improve this
layer to reduce boilerplate code where on four lines of code three
aren't related to method's logic.
Also Chris stepped in with his offer to donate his work to the project
- so why not to accept someone's help? That's why I pushed this
forward to get another contributor involved and something that
supposed to take two days of development was extended into two weeks
of confusion :(
Regards
Ł.
2014-05-26 15:53 GMT+02:00 Christian Grobmeier <grobme...@gmail.com>:
On 24 May 2014, at 17:11, Dave Newton wrote:
On May 24, 2014 8:09 AM, "Christian Grobmeier" <grobme...@gmail.com>
wrote:
I didn't know this: {0.enrollmentDate,date,yyyy-MM-dd} would call
SimpleDateFormat.
I find it reasonably obvious this is formatting a date.
My point is you have to learn about it. There is no code completion to
help
you.
Maybe you can imagine this is formatting a date because there is some
format
given, but I can't tell whats the "date" parameter for. I would have to
read
the
docs.
I don't want to force our users reading docs except our own. You could
argue slf4j needs some doc reading itself, but many developers may have
done
so already.
Its more widespread and probably a better investment of time.
I also don't see anything confusing about the call itself. I prefer
code
to be distilled to its essence. In this case, logging, I'd rather focus
on
what I'm logging than the mechanics of Java. A giant chunk of code in
the
middle of what I'm *really* doing is distracting and takes the focus
away
from the problem being solved.
If there is a lot of code hidden from you, then there is a lot code
which might be buggy. Nobody prevents you to use that framework if you
like it that much, but that is nothing which a framework like Struts
should dictate. Instead I believe Struts should stick to common sense
wherever possible, and logging is one of these cases.
This is true of Java in general, but I don't want to be overwhelmed by
secondary concerns while reading code, whenever possible.
While I don't necessarily advocate this as the *only* solution, I
wouldn't
mind introducing some minor syntax in format strings. I do wonder if it
should fit in better with an existing EL rather than introducing yet
another, though.
When it comes to logging i am a purist. People already complain because
there are too many logging solutions around today, I don't think it would
make any sense to have something special for Struts. There is some stuff
people can use, why are we not using what everybody else uses?
In regards to Onyx, I have a few more reasons why I would like to avoid
its
introduction. In example:
- maintained by a single person - who fixes the bugs, when there are
some?
See OGNL.
- in 2013 only two commits were made - no very active
- haven't seen the package on maven central repos
- not wide spread, 18 downloads for each version
- small version number tells me there is not yet trust in stability
For technical reasons I don't like it's syntax and think it's way to much
reflection for solving a simple problem.
To be honest (and sorry, Chris, I really think it was lot of work and you
are quite talented) I would prefer to the custom logging we have and know
instead of using a pretty unknown, exotic logging wrapper.
That's my two cents, and now I will shut up for a few days on the matter
to give others space to breath.
Thanks!
Christian
Dave
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