What does "open" mean in OpenCypher when the language specification is licensed under an unspecified Creative Commons license that could mean "non commercial use only" ?
If OpenCypher were actually "Open", wouldn't we see an Apache Cypher project where we could all pitch in and help guide the project ? What we do see a closed organization, controlled by ...... because you can't even see the companies without first registering on the web site. There is no obvious model for how to contribute or participate in this project. There is a github account. I think some of Neo's code has been available somewhere in github under GPL license for a while now. Do we consider that open ? Here is an interesting read on one of the participants: *http://preview.tinyurl.com/puxrf2m <http://preview.tinyurl.com/puxrf2m>* So... -1 as it currently stands, on doing anything with Cypher in TP. But there is a good "takeaway". Among Graph Users, there are two broad categories: 1) The UI folks who just want to issue a query and get back some data to display on a screen (mobile app, web app, BI tool) This is your Cypher user base. They don't really understand graph as a graph. They just want to treat it like a relational data store and get back some data to display. Nothing wrong with this....but it is a relatively unsophisticated class of users. Cypher is called a graph "*query" *language for a reason. 2) The data-sciency folks who understand graphs and who are doing analytics. These folks can do UI sorts of things too, but often are writing more sophisticated traversals and often have the Gremlin wrapped somewhere in a "server" side implementation. Gremlin, based on my experience, is a barrier for many people who fall into category 1 (and even 2 at times). We might consider dusting off something like this: https://github.com/lambdazen/pixy/wiki giving it a look and feel of "TinkerPop" and include it for category 1 users. That could be a strong addition to the TinkerPop specification. There is more to be said around Spark too, but that's for later. On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 9:51 AM, Alaa Mahmoud <[email protected]> wrote: > I was at GraphConnect last week and I attended a Cypher training session > (just for the heck of it :-)) I was amazed how easy it was to pick up in a > short amount of time. I believe Cypher's Match/Where/Return syntax is a > good starting point for those coming from an RDBMS/SQL background and > there's a lot of those. > > Implementing a Cypher driver could make it easier for those with SQL to > move or at consider graph as a option. > > Regards > Alaa > > On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 3:05 PM, Ran Magen <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Hey Marko, > > > > Gremlin is definitely the best over-all "GQL" around. That's why I think > > that before we develop any language-driver, we need to ask ourselves if > > there's are any use-cases in which that language would be a better choice > > than gremlin. > > > > - SPARQL - Many people are familiar with SPARQL, so a driver would > help > > them easily get to work with a TP graph. > > - GraphQL - QBE is a great definition. The cool thing about these > > queries is that they're very "composable", which is perfect for a > > composite > > application in which you have deeply nested components, each > specifying > > its own sub-query (e.g. the standard practice in React UIs). Granted > > gremlin is much more powerful, and I'd use it in almost all > > applications, > > but when building something like a React application, GraphQL could > > come on > > top. > > - OpenCypher - While it's an over-all more "able" language than > SPARQL & > > GraphQL, I haven't seen any use-case in which it trumps gremlin. > That's > > why > > IMO there is no point in implementing it. > > > > My 2 cents. > > Cheers, > > Ran > > > > > > On Tue, 27 Oct 2015 at 02:37 Marko Rodriguez <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > Hi Ran, > > > > > > Here are my thoughts on GraphQL now that I have learned more about it. > > > > > > 1. Matt Frantz and David Robinson nailed it -- its not really a > > > "graph language." Its more a QBE (query by example -- first time I > heard > > > that was from Matt). > > > - As such, do we want to support it in TinkerPop when > we > > > can do much more complex queries with the Gremlin machine? > > > 2. I think we should try and get the GraphQL guys to implement > a > > > compiler for Gremlin VM. > > > - You said it -- providers have to implement a server > to > > > execute it. Why not just implement graph.structure API and let the > > Gremlin > > > VM do the work for you. > > > - Is this a Facebook thing? Perhaps someone can find > > their > > > repository and post a ticket and see where it goes. > > > > > > The one thing that GraphQL has going for it (like SPARQL) is the ease > of > > > the development/maintenance of the compiler. Cypher and SQL are going > to > > be > > > insanely complex compilers to implement/maintain -- it will take > > manpower. > > > > > > Marko. > > > > > > http://markorodriguez.com > > > > > > On Oct 26, 2015, at 11:49 AM, Ran Magen <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > I'd be much more interested in GraphQL support. > > > > The cool thing about GraphQL is that you can easily create a unified > > > "graph > > > > query" from different components in an application, while keeping the > > > > separation between the components. It's a great feature for composite > > > UIs (e.g. > > > > React). > > > > As I understand it, GraphQL is mostly a standard for graph queries, > but > > > the > > > > user has to implement a server to actually execute the queries. And > > what > > > > better execution engine than the Gremlin VM? > > > > > > > > On Mon, 26 Oct 2015 at 15:17 Marko Rodriguez <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> Hey, > > > >> > > > >> After reading Stephen's reply, I was like -- "huh, sure." I didn't > > > really > > > >> don't care one way or another until I just read this: > > > >> > > > >> http://neo4j.com/blog/open-cypher-sql-for-graphs/ > > > >> > > > >> Look at the tone and lies that Neo4j is portraying. > > > >> > > > >> * Marko Rodriguez as "just some buddy of Emil's." > > > >> * Aurelius is some company. No, its called DataStax. > > > >> * Not once is Apache TinkerPop discussed or referenced -- > "just > > > >> Marko and a band of merry 'graphistas'."?! > > > >> * DataStax is NOT involved in their efforts for OpenCypher. > > > >> > > > >> The problem with Neo4j is they are corrupt. They use lies to control > > the > > > >> population. If we support Cypher in TinkerPop (like actively put it > > into > > > >> the repository as a distribution) we will see press releases like: > > > >> > > > >> * TinkerPop drops Gremlin in favor of Cypher. > > > >> * TinkerPop realizes that Cypher is the superior language. > > > >> * TinkerPop follows Neo4j in learning how to do graph > > processing > > > >> the right way. > > > >> * etc. > > > >> > > > >> Its going to be a bunch malarky like that that I don't want > > surrounding > > > >> our project. It would behoove us to be smart about how we interact > > with > > > >> people like this as they will use every opportunity they can to > > destroy > > > our > > > >> project to better their economic efforts. > > > >> > > > >> I don't do lies nor interact with people who use misinformation and > > > >> deception to get "ahead," > > > >> Marko. > > > >> > > > >> http://markorodriguez.com > > > >> > > > >> On Oct 26, 2015, at 4:35 AM, Stephen Mallette <[email protected] > > > > > >> wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> I'd be open to have cypher and sparql as first class citizens of > The > > > >>> TinkerPop. As I see it, there are two groups of graph users on the > > > fringe > > > >>> of TinkerPop and they live in the cypher world and in the RDF > world. > > > >>> Having both of these projects in TinkerPop would allow us to reach > > both > > > >> of > > > >>> those communities. Doing so would help to expand usage and > > potentially > > > >>> attract more committers. > > > >>> > > > >>> On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 1:08 PM, Marko Rodriguez < > > [email protected] > > > > > > > >>> wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>>> Hi, > > > >>>> > > > >>>> I (personally) am interested in getting another language into > > > >> TinkerPop's > > > >>>> distribution. I see an imbalance in the following table: > > > >>>> > > > >>>> TinkerGraph | Gremlin-Java8 > > > >>>> Neo4j | Gremlin-Groovy > > > >>>> Hadoop | NOTHING > > > >>>> > > > >>>> That is, we have 3 graph distributions, why not have 3 language > > > >>>> distributions. Moreover, I don't want yet another Gremlin-JVMLang > > > >> language > > > >>>> as that doesn't showcase the virtual machine aspects of Gremlin as > > > well > > > >> as, > > > >>>> for example: SPARQL-Gremlin or SQL-Gremlin. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> I (personally) am NOT interested in openCypher as the 3rd language > > > >>>> distribution for the following 2 reasons: > > > >>>> > > > >>>> 1. It will be at least a year+ before it culminates into > > > >> something. > > > >>>> 2. It doesn't fold a different computing space into > TinkerPop. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> To expand on #2, Hadoop is NOT typically seen as a graph system, > but > > > >> with > > > >>>> TinkerPop, we have Hadoop serving as a graph engine. With SPARQL, > we > > > >> pull > > > >>>> in the RDF guys (thats cool). With SQL, we pull in the world. I > > sorta > > > >>>> prefer SPARQL as its an easy language to handle (thanks in part to > > > >> Apache > > > >>>> Jena). With SQL we have Apache Calcite offering help, but SQL is > > > nasty > > > >>>> looking for graph queries and is just suuuuuch a beast of a > language > > > >> that > > > >>>> it would need someone dedicated to its maintenance/evolution. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Anywho -- thats what I think about another language in TinkerPop. > > I'm > > > >> pro > > > >>>> SPARQL-Gremlin if it matures and people are excited about it. > > > >>>> https://github.com/dkuppitz/sparql-gremlin > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Thanks, > > > >>>> Marko. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> http://markorodriguez.com > > > >>>> > > > >>>> On Oct 23, 2015, at 10:45 AM, pieter-gmail < > [email protected] > > > > > > >>>> wrote: > > > >>>> > > > >>>>> Is a opencypher < > http://neo4j.com/blog/open-cypher-sql-for-graphs/ > > > > > > -> > > > >>>>> gremlin compiler something the tinkerpop team would consider > > > >>>> implementing? > > > >>>>> Perhaps, hopefully with help from neo4j themselves. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Thanks > > > >>>>> Pieter > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
