On 22 January 2018 at 12:10, Neal Gompa <ngomp...@gmail.com> wrote:
<<<part about CentOS %ifings>>>
[..]
> >> > 8) Why we have %{centos} %ifings? Theoretically Centos is EL derivate
> up
> >> > to
> >> > ABI level so all this should be:
> >> >
> >> > a) removed
> >> > b) replaced by %{el6} and %{el7} (and if it is anything older ..
> remove)
> >> > c) if ContOS guys are using Fedora gir repos to preserve some CentOS
> >> > specific changes they should move all this stuff to own git (create
> >> > project
> >> > on github it is not rocket science). IMO definitely %{centos} is next
> >> > candidate to remove from master branch.
>
[..]
> >> The CentOS 'guys' do maintain everything in their repo.
> >
> >
> > OK so here you just gave me +1 for a). Thx.
> >
>
> No he didn't. He's telling you that CentOS packages have their own
> Dist-Git for packages they get from RHEL. RHEL people maintain
> packages in Fedora, and those often have conditionals for everything.
So again .. +1 to a) to remove all %{centos} macros and %ifings using those
macros 😀
You just said that none of the CentOS developers are pushing back any
changes to Fedora because they are using as baseline RHEL, and RHEL only
every few years (+5yeas to be more precise) are shapshoting Fedora to start
next major EL release ..
<<<part about Mageia %ifings>>>
[..]
> This is not completely true. Actually, a good number of spec files in
> Mageia differ from Fedora only in three things:
>
> 1. %mkrel 1 instead of 1%{?dist}
> 2. Indentation (sometimes, I personally don't mess with that)
> 3. libification (each shared library gets its own subpackage)
>
Point 2 is deal breaker and only by this Mageia packages have closed way
completely to start contributing back to some changes Fedora on specs level.
Mageia has many only in this distribution found patches.
Let's say it straight: Mageia people have 0/NULL added value to on
development if they would enforcing people pushing back ANY changes.
If someone will be pushing on porting back they ill slow down own
development to snail speed.
Those three points are not only difference.
Mageia has own %changelog.
Look on attached rust-packaging.spec.diff.
Even in case this quite simple spec
BTW. adding %mkrel was IMO stupidest ever thing possible to do because all
what was necessary to do was change ONLY %dist macro VALUE to mga7 or mga6
instead introducing yet-another-our-own-olny macro.
I see here NIH syndrome 😎
There are many packages and package stacks synced from Fedora on a
> regular basis. For example, the entire Java and MinGW stack is sourced
> from Fedora, with minimal changes done. I also personally synchronize
> the SELinux stack from Fedora (including selinux-policy).
>
But it has nothing to do with sharing specs. Really .. it is end of story.
Sorry ..
The package for RPM in Mageia is also designed to be able to build on
> Fedora,
Even it it is possible for some non-empty set of specs what I saw already
is enough to it will be few obstacles in macros suit.
I'm sure that it will be already quite big number of such specs files which
will fail.
More important is that we are talking almost 100% specs which are already
in Fedora so borrowing them from Mageia will be probably last thing about
which typical joe-Fedora-packager will be thinking.
Do you see this?
> and our packaging is pretty much synchronized with Fedora's.
>
Show me some example(s).
How this synchronization is done and Fedora specs are only used on
occasions like "OK they've (Fedora) added this or updated package <foo> so
we will to the same something simillar". During this process no one is
using git on "borrowing" fedora specs diffs (between older and new version
of the Fedora spec).
Am I right?
As result if someone from Mageia will be able to update some packages
quicker than it will happen in Fedora NO-ONE-WILL-CARE about pushing back
to Fedora similar update
Am I right?
Above is even probably used as kind of the argument to convince end users
use Mageia in something like: "look we are Better(tm) than Fedora!" 😀
(it is nothing wrong with this .. it is just marketing)
Am I right?
If it will be three times "yes" it ill be straight prove that connection
between Fedora and Mageia is not *bidirectional* but whole stuff goes only
in *one direction*!!
Do you see it now?
If it is true it is only necessary argument to remove Mageia %ifings from
Fedora master.
> Just one test:
> >
> > $ diff -u rust-packaging.spec.mageia rust-packaging.spec | diffstat
> > rust-packaging.spec | 82
> > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++--------------------
> > 1 file changed, 51 insertions(+), 31 deletions(-)
> >
> > Next time try to spend at least few seconds to verification something
> before
> > forming some speculations.
> >
> > Thank you to point that remove Mageia %ifings is next possible (small
> this
> > time) thing to do.
> >
>
> Trust me, I know what I'm talking about when it comes to rust-packaging.
>
Sorry to not trusting you
As long checking this took me few seconds (look on the attachment) I know
that it is not true.
Look on rust-packaging version 4 and 5 in Fedora and Mageia. There is no
what so ever connections here ..
If you will compare those two versions you will see that on
update Mageia rust-packaging to version 5 no one has been using as baseline
Fedora changes done in meantime.
The spec is nearly identical in Mageia[1] and Fedora[2]. In fact,
> since we just imported Fedora's C.UTF-8 locale patch for glibc[3],
> we're going to be able to use C.UTF-8 instead of forcing in
> en_US.UTF-8 in stuff, so it'll become even more similar.
>
> [1]: http://svnweb.mageia.org/packages/cauldron/rust-
> packaging/current/SPECS/rust-packaging.spec?revision=1194478&view=markup
>
> [2]: https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/rust-packaging/blob/
> master/f/rust-packaging.spec
>
> [3]: http://svnweb.mageia.org/packages?view=revision&revision=1195193
>
>
Do you know that in Fedora is +20k specs?
You are talking about T-H-R-E-E specs!!
Please .. looking on only rust-packaging spec I'm 100% sure that no one
in Mageia on releasing new version is dropping own version of the spec and
again is using as baseline Fedora one.
Do you see this?
[..]
> We have our own copies in Mageia because it's dumb not to.
Let me guess .. BecauseWeCan(tm)? 😉
But seriously .. because there is no standard format/indentation in Fedora
and at least some critical mass of Mageia packages FULLY understand HOW
IMPORTANT it is!!! even if if was never openly told/verbalized?
[..]
> >> Until you, Igor and others start engaging the maintainers to
> >> understand why doing those things solve problems for them.. and why
> >> they aren't moving to newer tools.. this is not going to end well.
> >
> >
> > Really sorry but this is EXACTLY what I'm doing here :)
> >
>
> Are you? You seem a little... combative for trying to engage with people
First: I don't who more should I engage? 😎
Nevertheless bottom conclusion:
Sorry to say that buy still you did not gave me any reason to not wipe out
all Mageia %ifing (from only 3 pecs!!!) from Fedora set.
The same is (so far) in case CentOS %ifings.
kloczek
--
Tomasz Kłoczko | LinkedIn: http://lnkd.in/FXPWxH
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