Hi Andrea and Lucien, From: Andrea Bernabei <and.berna...@gmail.com<mailto:and.berna...@gmail.com>> Reply-To: Sailfish OS Developers <devel@lists.sailfishos.org<mailto:devel@lists.sailfishos.org>> Date: mercredi 25 juin 2014 18:52 To: Sailfish OS Developers <devel@lists.sailfishos.org<mailto:devel@lists.sailfishos.org>> Subject: Re: [SailfishDevel] Follow up on faenil's topics in Community meeting 24.04.2014 @ 10:00 UTC
To avoid misunderstandings: I *do* believe sailors read the threads at TJC, and they file bugs, when they can. The problem, imho, is not sailors not reading, it's TJC having too many reports to be an efficient bug tracking solution. If I were a sailors, and I were to really track all threads on TJC and file bugs in the internal bugzilla, I think I wouldn't have time to keep coding sailfish pieces. Really keeping track of threads in TJC is a fulltime job by itself, we *can't* expect sailors to be able to follow it very close... I'll be *very* happy to be proven wrong...all I want is the best for Jolla Going through and linking the TJC reports does take time of course, but I can tell we’re continuously improving. We look at tags and as an area owner, it does already fairly limit the scope of what needs to be looked at by who on daily basis. Automation and triggers are next to support a better overall workflow. It’s not about proving anyone right or wrong but improve continuously :) 2014-06-25 17:42 GMT+02:00 Andrea Bernabei <and.berna...@gmail.com<mailto:and.berna...@gmail.com>>: yes, and who's more likely to report valid bugs of the two categories? :D (I say more likely, no offence meant to casual users, I just think the focus for a bug reporting tool should be on power users, which, from the opinions I gathered in the last months, don't have many nice words about TJC) All reports are equal by nature, though it’s surely easier when a more experimented user can explain an issue adopting the developer’s mindset; factual observation supported by accuracy and possibly pointers to affected components. Back to some of our core values it translates exactly to doing it together and putting users (all of them) first, offering a framework where they can talk to us and where we can answer (yes, this can be improved still and we’re working on it…). TJC was cool because there was nothing before it...now a few months passed, Jolla should look into specialising the bug reporting offer, or (as Eric is also suggesting) it should make the link with the internal bz so strong that I don't have to be worried if I'm wasting my time by reporting super detailed bugs to a place probably nobody is going to read. TJC is still cool, c’mon :) If you (and/or the other Community members you fetched feedback from on IRC) are eager to contribute in making TJC a better place for developers/power users to report issues in a more formatted manner than the average users you refer to actually do, I would be more than happy to see an initiative where you create specific guidelines (a wiki post?), with a reporting template proposal under https://together.jolla.com/questions/scope:all/sort:activity-desc/tags:guidelines/page:1/ This would be IMHO a perfect way to start and make better use of what is currently available, and move forward together. I believe we can improve together TJC and meet some of your expectations without relying on yet another dedicated tool and more importantly, cluster users into using these based on what sounds a little like segregation to me. Truly, the target is to blend into a movement, adopt, learn, share, no matter the background… 2014-06-25 17:25 GMT+02:00 <sfietkonstan...@free.fr<mailto:sfietkonstan...@free.fr>>: I'm wondering how TJC is handled internally by Jolla. Some insights on how sailors proceed is very welcomed. To reply to Faenil, I would say that it depends on the users. Power users like us are often on IRC and discuss directly with some Sailors. And they can feel that TJC is a mess (especially compared to a bugtracking tool). However, the average Jolla user might just post something on TJC and either forget about it, or just follow his own issue(s). ----- Mail original ----- De: "Andrea Bernabei" <and.berna...@gmail.com<mailto:and.berna...@gmail.com>> À: "Sailfish OS Developers" <devel@lists.sailfishos.org<mailto:devel@lists.sailfishos.org>> Envoyé: Mercredi 25 Juin 2014 17:16:54 Objet: Re: [SailfishDevel] Follow up on faenil's topics in Community meeting 24.04.2014 @ 10:00 UTC DISCLAIMER: I'm saying the following words with a smile on my face, I may sound harsh but please believe me, I don't mean to :) Eric, just go into the IRC channel, and ask people there (who are, usually, the most active community members): 1) what do you think of TJC as a bug reporting tool? 2) do you think it can work? but most importantly 3) Are you *actually* reporting bugs on TJC? I heard many people who are not reporting bugs on TJC because they think it's not worth it (for different reasons) and I'm not reporting them myself, because I keep stumbling on unanswered posts. Well, here you could actually nicely make use of a poll, following these guidelines: https://together.jolla.com/question/16697/together-howto-polling-in-together/ But that is normal, sailors are not developer-care agents, they can't spend all day reading all kind of reports trying to understand which bug is valid, which one is invalid, and then also keep those posts updated with the news! Hence my point... Cheers, Eric
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