Exactly @ Ian. Though I was there and felt after what happened with the Bill it was all lip service but still, I think this is why Abdul & Francis ideas, however different are needed.
Each party has its own system which is sheilded from the public. That isn't democracy. On 11/04/2010, Abdul Hai <[email protected]> wrote: > I stand corrected on the Liberal Democrats conference. Thanks for the > information. > > > > Support solar power in the developing world. > http://www.everyclick.com/solaraid > http://www.solar-aid.org/ > > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Ian Eiloart <[email protected]> > To: "mySociety public, general purpose discussion list" > <[email protected]> > Sent: Sun, 11 April, 2010 15:22:39 > Subject: Re: [mySociety:public] Conservative Primaries > > > On 10 Apr 2010, at 20:04, Abdul Hai wrote: > >> The trouble is that parties have now become professional fighting missions >> and are organised from the centre with people at the local level having >> not much of a say and even when they do in Conservative Primaries >> sometimes the local party tries to overturn the result remember the turnip >> taliban. Then there is the example of Tristram Hunt. >> >> The thing is that conference is not where policy is decided it is done by >> the party managers. > > I'm not sure whether you're claiming this is true about all parties, or just > the Tory party. I certainly don't think it's true of the Lib Dems, who do > make policy at conference. For example, members persuaded the party to > oppose various the Digital Economy bill, which the party did. OK, perhaps > the opposition wasn't strong enough for everybody, and certainly we could > never have mustered the votes to kill the bill, but none of our MPs voted > for it. > > I haven't been to a Labour or Conservative conference, but I've heard from > one "Independent" and one "Guardian" journalist that it's refreshing to > cover a Lib Dem conference because -unlike the others- we do make policy at > conference. > > Oh, and as a local party, we also get councillors elected. Those councillors > (I'm one) make a difference locally, but not as much as we'd like because > much of what local councils do is tightly constrained by government. Does > the local party control local policy? Well, kind of, because the councillors > form a large proportion of the active members! > > >> >> The local parties are really there before the invention of the media age. >> >> >> Support solar power in the developing world. >> http://www.everyclick.com/solaraid >> http://www.solar-aid.org/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Irene Rukerebuka <[email protected]> >> To: "mySociety public, general purpose discussion list" >> <[email protected]> >> Sent: Sat, 10 April, 2010 17:27:42 >> Subject: Re: [mySociety:public] Conservative Primaries >> >> Yeah, for sure. You're right. >> >> I only joined a party like a year and a half ago. I could never get any >> info at all. I found I had to join a party-that I agreed with its vision >> the most-to find anything out about politics or democracy. >> >> >> >> >> On 10 April 2010 17:09, Abdul Hai <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Thanks Irene. >>> >>> What I was getting at was that it is easier for party members to know as >>> the party has their details and is in contact with them rather then what >>> happens in a primary for the Conservative Party where local people are >>> asked to attend a huskings with no other information unless they can find >>> out something from Iain Dale or something. >>> >>> >>> Support solar power in the developing world. >>> http://www.everyclick.com/solaraid >>> http://www.solar-aid.org/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> ________________________________ >> From: Irene Rukerebuka <[email protected]> >>> >>> To: "mySociety public, general purpose discussion list" >>> <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Sat, 10 April, 2010 16:37:16 >>> >>> Subject: Re: [mySociety:public] Conservative Primaries >>> >>> >>> I am with the Lib Dems and you're right Abdul, only members can vote. It >>> is a transparent process and we know quite a bit about the candidate but >>> that could just be my area-which actually is a poor Lib D area and like >>> 98% Tory. >>> >>> The selection process starts pretty much right after the general election >>> give or take. We've been sent emails about starting up again. >>> >>> But I think it is different for all parties. I do know that with Labour, >>> speaking to some different people in various positions that it's that >>> they tend to already know who will stand where because there is such a >>> huge waiting list anyhow. >>> >>> Not sure about the Greens. Re the Jury party-independents-it is >>> continous. I have a friend who is looking to stand and they pretty much >>> set up their own campaign and way. >>> >>> Not sure about UKIP or BNP! But could probably find out... >>> >>> I agree Francis about your concept though and like it. I do find having >>> played with the online game to get the PPC details, that a phone call >>> would be much better to get hold of any of these details. MP's are too >>> protected by their parties and shielded and all you get is lip service. >>> >>> >>> On 10 April 2010 16:11, Francis Irving <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>>> >>>> On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 01:28:14PM +0000, Abdul Hai wrote: >>>>>>> I agree with to a certain extent Francis but I think it should be >>>>>>> more of an information site rather than a campaigning one. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It should be a new site and maybe you could run a test during the >>>>>>> next by election to get it ready for the next general election. >>>> >>>> Candidate selection can be ongoing throughout the period between >>>>>> General Elections. At least, I know selections were happening a couple >>>>>> of years ago. >>>> >>>>>> Anyone know, how soon after an Election do parties start to select >>>>>> candidates for the next election for any seats? >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> I am not a member of any party as once I used to work in a >>>>>>> politically sensitive job so I don't take part in local parties but >>>>>>> I could be wrong my understanding is that with the Liberal Democrats >>>>>>> and Labour parties that it is the members who vote and they are >>>>>>> likely to be more knowledgeable but with the Conservatives it is >>>>>>> anyone who is eligible can vote. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I was unable to attend the last primary but the information on the >>>>>>> candidates was lacking and the vast majority of people who attended >>>>>>> were not members of the party so they had no time to gather any >>>>>>> information. >>>> >>>> Right! It is a very invisible, unscrutinised process. >>>> >>>>>> Francis >>>> >>>>>>> ________________________________ From: Francis Irving >>>> >>>>> <[email protected]> To: "mySociety public, general purpose >>>>>>> discussion list" <[email protected]> Cc: - >>>>>>> <[email protected]> Sent: Sat, 10 April, 2010 13:07:54 >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [mySociety:public] Conservative Primaries >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Great idea Abdul. Julian Todd has been saying similar things, and we >>>>>>> reckon something like the following would fit the bill: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> After the Election, I would like somebody (it would fit well with >>>>>>> YourNextMP or DemocracyClub, or could be a new project) to track >>>>>>> candidate selection for all parties on an ongoing basis. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The site would feature: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> * A page for each local party, with information about how it selects >>>>>>> candidates, who is up for nomination, what stage it is at, who has >>>>>>> been selected, deselected etc. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> * All the data obviously structured, with history etc. Would have to >>>>>>> be user submitted data (YourNextMP style). If there are any votes, >>>>>>> how many people voted which way, how many attended the meeting etc. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> * Email alerts to give you updates about parties in your >>>>>>> constituency, e.g. when there are public selection meetings, or when >>>>>>> it might be worth joining a party in order to influence selection. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> * A way of sharing information about people running to be PPCs. >>>>>>> Basically a YourNextMP type set of information on them. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> * A measure of how democratic the process is for each party (locally >>>>>>> and on average nationally). Other national party statistics >>>>>>> aggregated from the local party info. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> * Possibly could be a campaigning site, with a way of asking / >>>>>>> lobbying for open primaries, or other improvements to candidate >>>>>>> selection processes. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> * Possibly could be a "local party" scrutiny site - so could have >>>>>>> info other than about selection, such as number of local party >>>>>>> members, local party donations and so on. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What Voter Power (http://www.voterpower.org.uk/) reminds us, is that >>>>>>> most people don't get a vote for their MP. The MP is preordained, >>>>>>> based on the process the party uses to select the candidate. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A way of improving democracy would be to have more scrutiny of the >>>>>>> candidate selection process. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Francis >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 09, 2010 at 07:18:47PM +0000, Abdul Hai wrote: >>>>>>>> I have been thinking about this for sometime and I was thinking >>>>>>>> wouldn't be a good idea to have a site for all Conservative >>>>>>>> Primaries for the next election. Before people starting making >>>>>>>> comments I would like to say that even though I am Conservative >>>>>>>> supporter it would be useful for non Conservatives as the >>>>>>>> Primaries are open to the general public who live in the area even >>>>>>>> if they are not natural supporters. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We had one in my local area and it would have been useful for >>>>>>>> people to have a site that gave information. I know a lot of >>>>>>>> people who went there are not Tory voters. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ Mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] Archive, settings, or >>>>>>> unsubscribe: >>>>>>> https://secure.mysociety.org/admin/lists/mailman/listinfo/developers-public >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ Mailing list >>>> >>>>> [email protected] Archive, settings, or >>>>>>> unsubscribe: >>>>>>> https://secure.mysociety.org/admin/lists/mailman/listinfo/developers-public >>>> >>>> >>>> -- Help beat party propaganda at the next election - >>>> www.democracyclub.org.uk >>>> >>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Mailing list [email protected] >>>>>> Archive, settings, or unsubscribe: >>>> https://secure.mysociety.org/admin/lists/mailman/listinfo/developers-public >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Irene Rukerebuka >>> >>> 37 Hunters Way >>> Tunbridge Wells >>> Kent >>> TN2 5QF >>> >>> m: 07826255452 >>> >>> t: www.twitter.com/rantersparadise >>>> >>> w: www.hubnovation.org.uk >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Mailing list [email protected] >>>> Archive, settings, or unsubscribe: >>> https://secure.mysociety.org/admin/lists/mailman/listinfo/developers-public >>> >> >> >> -- >> Irene Rukerebuka >> >> 37 Hunters Way >> Tunbridge Wells >> Kent >> TN2 5QF >> >> m: 07826255452 >> >> t: www.twitter.com/rantersparadise >> w: www.hubnovation.org.uk >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Mailing list [email protected] >> Archive, settings, or unsubscribe: >> https://secure.mysociety.org/admin/lists/mailman/listinfo/developers-public > > -- > Ian Eiloart > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing list [email protected] > Archive, settings, or unsubscribe: > https://secure.mysociety.org/admin/lists/mailman/listinfo/developers-public > > > > -- Irene Rukerebuka 37 Hunters Way Tunbridge Wells Kent TN2 5QF m: 07826255452 t: www.twitter.com/rantersparadise w: www.hubnovation.org.uk _______________________________________________ Mailing list [email protected] Archive, settings, or unsubscribe: https://secure.mysociety.org/admin/lists/mailman/listinfo/developers-public
