Hi developers! I'm back from holidays. I have read all your messages this morning, and this is what I propose for the next 2 weeks (until M2):
(it is based on the proposal D from Caty: http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/CreateWikiImprovements#HOptionD) * We use the term 'subwiki' instead of 'wiki'. * We add an option in the subwiki creation ui called 'users isolation', that enable local users for the new subwiki. * We add a new right called 'subwiki creation right'. * We add a new right called 'users isolation rights', which enable or not if the user has the right to use the 'users isolation' option while he is creating a new subwiki. * We drop the notion of 'workspaces' and 'farm', since you can have the same behaviour with the good set of settings. Now, I quote Guillaume Lerouge who has explained several use cases, and I'll say how to handle it with this proposal: 1. *Large organization where various groups want to have independent wikis for their knowledge bases:* no local users, wiki creation restricted to admins to avoid duplication of KBs --> SOLUTION: 'subwiki creation right' only given to admins, 'user isolation rights' given to nobody. 2. *"Pure" wiki farm as on myxwiki.org:* you only want admins to be able to create new wikis to prevent spam. Each wiki has its local users. --> SOLUTION: 'subwiki creation right' only given to admins, 'user isolation rights' given to admin too. Each time a new subwiki is created, the admin select the option 'users isolation'. 3. *Large organization where people want to work on projects with sub-contractors (some wikis act as an extranet):* local users allowed, anyone can create a wiki --> SOLUTION: 'subwiki creation right' given to all users, 'user isolation rights' given to all users. 4. *Company where people want to work on internal projects:* local users not allowed, anyone can create a wiki --> SOLUTION: 'subwiki creation right' given to all users, 'user isolation rights' given to nobody. As you can see, all the well-knowned use cases are handled by my proposal. I would like to to say if you agree with it. We only have 2 weeks to achieve this, and I work only 4 days a week. WDYT? Regards, Louis-Marie 2013/8/2 Jean Coury <[email protected]> > Hello, > > Firstly I couldn't read everything because there is a lot of off topics so > forgive me if some of the following should not be here. If you have no time > go the last line directly. > > I've been struggling with client with all those terms wich look like the > same (e.g. Main wiki, sub-wiki and then Workspace, Space) and the fact that > Workspace have "Work" into it and so is not really friendly to the client's > users. My first proposal would have been "Portal > Wiki > Space > Page" in > order to keep the basics and to find an easy way to describe the main wiki. > Then I read multiple threads and have a look to the competitors and > find-out that Home as a first term would be great and less technical than > Portal. Moreover Portal is full of connotations and do not show the > possibility to customize it. > > "There is no place like Home" don't you think? > Proposal : Home > Wiki > Space > Page > > Then I looked at the proposal made by Cathy on > > http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/CreateWikiImprovements > I would have picked B but I strongly dislike the fact that the product can > be two things at a time and so* > => I vote for* *D*. > > Regards, > > > 2013/8/1 Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau <[email protected]> > > > I vote for D (not B anymore). > > > > 2013/8/1 Guillaume Lerouge <[email protected]> > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > I like this option. Waiting for further agreement on the sister thread > > > about workspaces, I think this is a good solution for XE 5.2. > > > > > > The downside is that we lose a bit of simplicity, but it's a tough > topic. > > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 4:31 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 5:22 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 30, 2013, at 1:26 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Caty, > > > > > > > > > > > > See below. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 30, 2013, at 1:10 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < > > > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 10:24 PM, Vincent Massol < > > > [email protected]> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> On Jul 22, 2013, at 10:16 PM, Sergiu Dumitriu < > [email protected]> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>>> On 07/20/2013 07:33 AM, Vincent Massol wrote: > > > > > >>>>> Hi devs, > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> In the Roadmap proposal I've sent for XWiki 5.2 some days > ago, > > > > > there's > > > > > >>> this time: > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> " > > > > > >>>>> * Have Workspace by default in XE + improved home page - > Caty + > > > > > >>> Guillaume Delhumeau. FTR Guillaume is not a committer yet but > > he's > > > > > going to > > > > > >>> work full time on XWiki development and especially on UI > aspects > > > from > > > > > now > > > > > >>> on. Welcome aboard Guillaume, we need you! :) > > > > > >>>>> " > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Denis told me he didn't know about the proposal of having > > > > Workspaces > > > > > >>> integrated in the default XAR. Thus I'm sending this email to > > > ensure > > > > > we all > > > > > >>> agree about this. > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> The rationale is: > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> * It would be nice that when our users download XWiki > > (standalone > > > > > >>> version or install the default XAR) they get to see the power > of > > > > > XWiki. One > > > > > >>> of the very important differentiator of XWiki vs other > > > > wikis/solutions > > > > > is > > > > > >>> our multi-tenancy feature and most of people downloading and > > > > installing > > > > > >>> XWiki don't see it. > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> * XEM/Wiki Manager are lacking polishing because the > committers > > > > > mostly > > > > > >>> polish the default which doesn't include those. The UIs of > > XEM/Wiki > > > > > Manager > > > > > >>> need polishing. Having them in default will ensure that we take > > > them > > > > > into > > > > > >>> account and make them first class citizens when we develop. > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Caty started working on the home page/UI improvements > required > > to > > > > > >>> integrate this by default: > > > > > >>>>> > > > http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/MultiWiki > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Here's my +1 > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> This is a major shift in how first-time users perceive XWiki. > > > > Without > > > > > >>>> multi-wiki features, it still looks like a wiki, but if the > > > homepage > > > > > >>>> changes from a "welcome to your wiki" page to a "here are your > > > > > >>>> workspaces" portal, then suddenly XWiki "becomes" something > else > > > in > > > > > the > > > > > >>>> eyes of our users. I used quotes since nothing changes on the > > > > inside, > > > > > >>>> the multiwiki feature has been there since the beginning, and > > the > > > > > single > > > > > >>>> wiki mode can still be used. > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> This isn't the plan as I mentioned in my previous emails. The > > plan > > > is > > > > > that > > > > > >>> the home page doesn't change. All that changes for a first time > > > user > > > > > >>> installing XWiki is that the Add menu will have more entries > (Add > > > > > Workspace > > > > > >>> or Add Wiki or both, Caty is still working on the proposal). > > > > > >>> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Proposals: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> * Changes to the Menu > > > > > >> > http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/HomeMenu > > > > > > > > > > > > * "Add menu". I think you forgot to update the 3rd screenshots > > which > > > > the > > > > > colibri skin, right? > > > > > > > > > > > > * "Home Menu". For 5.2 I don't think we should have the following > > > since > > > > > we don't have any UI for them: > > > > > > ** Administration. I don't even know what it means at the global > > > > > portal/system level > > > > > > ** All documents. Currently we don't have a LT that displays all > > docs > > > > > from all wikis > > > > > > ** Applications Index. I don't see what you would do in this one. > > > > > Listing all apps for all wikis for quick navigation? Not sure it's > > > needed > > > > > > ** Note: Users index should list all global users > > > > > > * I don't like very much "Home" as the menu name since that > > > represents > > > > a > > > > > single wiki (the main wiki). We already have a menu entry to > > represent > > > > the > > > > > current wiki. I'd prefer to have a "System" or "Portal" or "Farm" > or > > …, > > > > > i.e. something that represents the whole system and have only > > > system-wide > > > > > actions in it. > > > > > > > > > > After more thoughts I think it's ok for a first version to have the > > new > > > > > "Home" menu entry to represent the main wiki. However all subwikis > > menu > > > > > entries should have the same entries except for "Wiki Index" which > > > should > > > > > only be in "Home". > > > > > > > > > > In the future though, in the new model, we'll have a notion of > System > > > > > (farm of wikis) and maybe we'll implement it differently than in a > > > wiki. > > > > > But we can take care of this at that time… ;) > > > > > > > > > > Right now the more important for me is to agree that we have only 1 > > > > > concept: the notion of "Wiki" and to replace the notion of > > "Workspace" > > > > just > > > > > by a checkbox in the wiki creation wizard: > > > > > "Allow creating local users" (which is unchecked by default). > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've created the 'Option D' proposal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/CreateWikiImprovements#HOptionD > > > > - used 'subwiki' term instead of 'wiki' > > > > - used 'users isolation' checkbox to replace the notion of workspace > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Caty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Note that we'll also need in 5.3+ a new right IMO: the right of > > > creating > > > > a > > > > > new wiki. For 5.2 we could just have a check in the wiki creation > > > wizard > > > > > page (for example on the user having Admin rights on the main > wiki). > > If > > > > an > > > > > Admin wants to change that to allow everyone to create a wiki he > > could > > > > edit > > > > > that page and change the check. > > > > > > > > > > WDYT? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > -Vincent > > > > > > > > > > > * "Wiki Menu". Should be the same as now + Users Index for > listing > > > all > > > > > local users of the current wiki + Application Index for all apps of > > the > > > > > current wiki, i.e. all actions that you can do on the current wiki > > > > > > > > > > > >> * Wiki/Workspace Creation > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/CreateWikiImprovements > > > > > >> (please chose between Option A, B or C) > > > > > > > > > > > > Definitely +1 for B. I really think we need to drop the concept > of > > > > > workspaces and come back to the concept of wiki/subwiki. It's much > > > > simpler > > > > > for the user. What we call "workspace" can be seen as a > configuration > > > > for a > > > > > wiki, i.e. the usage of global users only. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > -Vincent > > > > > > > > > > > >> Thanks, > > > > > >> Caty > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>>> But this change in how XWiki is perceived has both advantages > > and > > > > > >>>> disadvantages. On one hand, it clearly shows users that XWiki > > is a > > > > > >>>> collaborative platform, not just a wiki, so people that need > > > > > >>>> collaboration more than just a wiki will be able to see that > > XWiki > > > > > isn't > > > > > >>>> another boring wiki. On the other hand, people that are just > > > looking > > > > > for > > > > > >>>> a wiki that's nice to use and "not-ugly", might be put off by > > yet > > > > > >>>> another layer of complexity, and might drop XWiki from their > > list > > > of > > > > > >>>> candidates. In other words, it alienates even more the kind of > > > users > > > > > >>>> that already perceive XWiki as hard to use and overly complex. > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> So, are we willing to trade one type of users for the other? > It > > > > would > > > > > be > > > > > >>>> in line with our vision of "enterprise collaboration", but I > > still > > > > > think > > > > > >>>> we shouldn't voluntarily alienate any kind of users. > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> An alternative is to wait for a real flavor, and then ask in > the > > > > first > > > > > >>>> step of the distribution manager what kind of usage do we > want. > > In > > > > the > > > > > >>>> meantime, we can still polish the pages that will go in the > > > > > "workspaces" > > > > > >>>> flavor. > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> So, -0 for switching to "workspaces only" in 5.2, unless we > have > > > > > really > > > > > >>>> good backwards compatibility and a flavor for a simple wiki > for > > > > > textual > > > > > >>>> collaboration. > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> I hope the above allays your fears :) > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> Thanks > > > > > >>> -Vincent > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > devs mailing list > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > devs mailing list > > > > [email protected] > > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > devs mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > devs mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > > > -- > Jean Coury > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
