Hi Guillaume, On Aug 26, 2013, at 12:30 PM, Guillaume Louis-Marie Delhumeau <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi developers! > > I'm back from holidays. I have read all your messages this morning, and > this is what I propose for the next 2 weeks (until M2): > > (it is based on the proposal D from Caty: > http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/CreateWikiImprovements#HOptionD) > > * We use the term 'subwiki' instead of 'wiki'. > * We add an option in the subwiki creation ui called 'users isolation', > that enable local users for the new subwiki. > * We add a new right called 'subwiki creation right'. > * We add a new right called 'users isolation rights', which enable or not > if the user has the right to use the 'users isolation' option while he is > creating a new subwiki. > * We drop the notion of 'workspaces' and 'farm', since you can have the > same behaviour with the good set of settings. > > Now, I quote Guillaume Lerouge who has explained several use cases, and > I'll say how to handle it with this proposal: > > 1. *Large organization where various groups want to have independent wikis > for their knowledge bases:* no local users, wiki creation restricted to > admins to avoid duplication of KBs > --> SOLUTION: 'subwiki creation right' only given to admins, 'user > isolation rights' given to nobody. > > 2. *"Pure" wiki farm as on myxwiki.org:* you only want admins to be able to > create new wikis to prevent spam. Each wiki has its local users. > --> SOLUTION: 'subwiki creation right' only given to admins, 'user > isolation rights' given to admin too. Each time a new subwiki is created, > the admin select the option 'users isolation'. > > 3. *Large organization where people want to work on projects with > sub-contractors (some wikis act as an extranet):* local users allowed, > anyone can create a wiki > --> SOLUTION: 'subwiki creation right' given to all users, 'user isolation > rights' given to all users. > > 4. *Company where people want to work on internal projects:* local users > not allowed, anyone can create a wiki > --> SOLUTION: 'subwiki creation right' given to all users, 'user isolation > rights' given to nobody. > > As you can see, all the well-knowned use cases are handled by my proposal. > I would like to to say if you agree with it. We only have 2 weeks to > achieve this, and I work only 4 days a week. > > WDYT? All sounds good to me, it covers all use cases I know too. Just a minor detail: when you say above "given to all users", this can be replaced by "given to users of a specific group" in some cases. The only issue I can see is the addition of 2 new rights in the current Rights UI for 5.2 final. How do you envision this? I guess there are 4 quick solutions (that do not entail a full Rights UI rewrite): A - allow horizontal scrolling to see all rights. While this is not perfect from a UI POV at least it allows us to progress and improve the Rights UI in the near future. B - modify a bit the Rights UI but without a full rewrite (for example by putting the rights in a select box and the users selects the right to display). Again this would be a quick fix while waiting for the full Rights UI rewrite. C - add a SubWiki Admin section in the Admin page and put those 2 new rights in there FTM. When we do the Rights UI rewrite, we can then move them there (or not). D - have 2 special pages with a Rights Object attached to them to represent the who's allowed to add a subwiki and use users isolation and have the subwiki creation wizard use thoses pages. This would be while waiting for the new Rights UI rewrite and/or the addition of those 2 new rights. My preference goes to either A, C or D. I think C might be the best one even on the longer term since it clearly creates a section proper for subwiki administration. WDYT? Thanks -Vincent > Regards, > > Louis-Marie > > > > 2013/8/2 Jean Coury <[email protected]> > >> Hello, >> >> Firstly I couldn't read everything because there is a lot of off topics so >> forgive me if some of the following should not be here. If you have no time >> go the last line directly. >> >> I've been struggling with client with all those terms wich look like the >> same (e.g. Main wiki, sub-wiki and then Workspace, Space) and the fact that >> Workspace have "Work" into it and so is not really friendly to the client's >> users. My first proposal would have been "Portal > Wiki > Space > Page" in >> order to keep the basics and to find an easy way to describe the main wiki. >> Then I read multiple threads and have a look to the competitors and >> find-out that Home as a first term would be great and less technical than >> Portal. Moreover Portal is full of connotations and do not show the >> possibility to customize it. >> >> "There is no place like Home" don't you think? >> Proposal : Home > Wiki > Space > Page >> >> Then I looked at the proposal made by Cathy on >> >> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/CreateWikiImprovements >> I would have picked B but I strongly dislike the fact that the product can >> be two things at a time and so* >> => I vote for* *D*. >> >> Regards, >> >> >> 2013/8/1 Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau <[email protected]> >> >>> I vote for D (not B anymore). >>> >>> 2013/8/1 Guillaume Lerouge <[email protected]> >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I like this option. Waiting for further agreement on the sister thread >>>> about workspaces, I think this is a good solution for XE 5.2. >>>> >>>> The downside is that we lose a bit of simplicity, but it's a tough >> topic. >>>> >>>> Guillaume >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 4:31 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 5:22 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jul 30, 2013, at 1:26 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Caty, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> See below. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jul 30, 2013, at 1:10 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 10:24 PM, Vincent Massol < >>>> [email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Jul 22, 2013, at 10:16 PM, Sergiu Dumitriu < >> [email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 07/20/2013 07:33 AM, Vincent Massol wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Hi devs, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> In the Roadmap proposal I've sent for XWiki 5.2 some days >> ago, >>>>>> there's >>>>>>>>> this time: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> " >>>>>>>>>>> * Have Workspace by default in XE + improved home page - >> Caty + >>>>>>>>> Guillaume Delhumeau. FTR Guillaume is not a committer yet but >>> he's >>>>>> going to >>>>>>>>> work full time on XWiki development and especially on UI >> aspects >>>> from >>>>>> now >>>>>>>>> on. Welcome aboard Guillaume, we need you! :) >>>>>>>>>>> " >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Denis told me he didn't know about the proposal of having >>>>> Workspaces >>>>>>>>> integrated in the default XAR. Thus I'm sending this email to >>>> ensure >>>>>> we all >>>>>>>>> agree about this. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The rationale is: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> * It would be nice that when our users download XWiki >>> (standalone >>>>>>>>> version or install the default XAR) they get to see the power >> of >>>>>> XWiki. One >>>>>>>>> of the very important differentiator of XWiki vs other >>>>> wikis/solutions >>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> our multi-tenancy feature and most of people downloading and >>>>> installing >>>>>>>>> XWiki don't see it. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> * XEM/Wiki Manager are lacking polishing because the >> committers >>>>>> mostly >>>>>>>>> polish the default which doesn't include those. The UIs of >>> XEM/Wiki >>>>>> Manager >>>>>>>>> need polishing. Having them in default will ensure that we take >>>> them >>>>>> into >>>>>>>>> account and make them first class citizens when we develop. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Caty started working on the home page/UI improvements >> required >>> to >>>>>>>>> integrate this by default: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/MultiWiki >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Here's my +1 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This is a major shift in how first-time users perceive XWiki. >>>>> Without >>>>>>>>>> multi-wiki features, it still looks like a wiki, but if the >>>> homepage >>>>>>>>>> changes from a "welcome to your wiki" page to a "here are your >>>>>>>>>> workspaces" portal, then suddenly XWiki "becomes" something >> else >>>> in >>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> eyes of our users. I used quotes since nothing changes on the >>>>> inside, >>>>>>>>>> the multiwiki feature has been there since the beginning, and >>> the >>>>>> single >>>>>>>>>> wiki mode can still be used. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This isn't the plan as I mentioned in my previous emails. The >>> plan >>>> is >>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> the home page doesn't change. All that changes for a first time >>>> user >>>>>>>>> installing XWiki is that the Add menu will have more entries >> (Add >>>>>> Workspace >>>>>>>>> or Add Wiki or both, Caty is still working on the proposal). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Proposals: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> * Changes to the Menu >>>>>>>> >> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/HomeMenu >>>>>>> >>>>>>> * "Add menu". I think you forgot to update the 3rd screenshots >>> which >>>>> the >>>>>> colibri skin, right? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> * "Home Menu". For 5.2 I don't think we should have the following >>>> since >>>>>> we don't have any UI for them: >>>>>>> ** Administration. I don't even know what it means at the global >>>>>> portal/system level >>>>>>> ** All documents. Currently we don't have a LT that displays all >>> docs >>>>>> from all wikis >>>>>>> ** Applications Index. I don't see what you would do in this one. >>>>>> Listing all apps for all wikis for quick navigation? Not sure it's >>>> needed >>>>>>> ** Note: Users index should list all global users >>>>>>> * I don't like very much "Home" as the menu name since that >>>> represents >>>>> a >>>>>> single wiki (the main wiki). We already have a menu entry to >>> represent >>>>> the >>>>>> current wiki. I'd prefer to have a "System" or "Portal" or "Farm" >> or >>> …, >>>>>> i.e. something that represents the whole system and have only >>>> system-wide >>>>>> actions in it. >>>>>> >>>>>> After more thoughts I think it's ok for a first version to have the >>> new >>>>>> "Home" menu entry to represent the main wiki. However all subwikis >>> menu >>>>>> entries should have the same entries except for "Wiki Index" which >>>> should >>>>>> only be in "Home". >>>>>> >>>>>> In the future though, in the new model, we'll have a notion of >> System >>>>>> (farm of wikis) and maybe we'll implement it differently than in a >>>> wiki. >>>>>> But we can take care of this at that time… ;) >>>>>> >>>>>> Right now the more important for me is to agree that we have only 1 >>>>>> concept: the notion of "Wiki" and to replace the notion of >>> "Workspace" >>>>> just >>>>>> by a checkbox in the wiki creation wizard: >>>>>> "Allow creating local users" (which is unchecked by default). >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I've created the 'Option D' proposal >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/CreateWikiImprovements#HOptionD >>>>> - used 'subwiki' term instead of 'wiki' >>>>> - used 'users isolation' checkbox to replace the notion of workspace >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Caty >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Note that we'll also need in 5.3+ a new right IMO: the right of >>>> creating >>>>> a >>>>>> new wiki. For 5.2 we could just have a check in the wiki creation >>>> wizard >>>>>> page (for example on the user having Admin rights on the main >> wiki). >>> If >>>>> an >>>>>> Admin wants to change that to allow everyone to create a wiki he >>> could >>>>> edit >>>>>> that page and change the check. >>>>>> >>>>>> WDYT? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> -Vincent >>>>>> >>>>>>> * "Wiki Menu". Should be the same as now + Users Index for >> listing >>>> all >>>>>> local users of the current wiki + Application Index for all apps of >>> the >>>>>> current wiki, i.e. all actions that you can do on the current wiki >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> * Wiki/Workspace Creation >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/CreateWikiImprovements >>>>>>>> (please chose between Option A, B or C) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Definitely +1 for B. I really think we need to drop the concept >> of >>>>>> workspaces and come back to the concept of wiki/subwiki. It's much >>>>> simpler >>>>>> for the user. What we call "workspace" can be seen as a >> configuration >>>>> for a >>>>>> wiki, i.e. the usage of global users only. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>> -Vincent >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> Caty >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> But this change in how XWiki is perceived has both advantages >>> and >>>>>>>>>> disadvantages. On one hand, it clearly shows users that XWiki >>> is a >>>>>>>>>> collaborative platform, not just a wiki, so people that need >>>>>>>>>> collaboration more than just a wiki will be able to see that >>> XWiki >>>>>> isn't >>>>>>>>>> another boring wiki. On the other hand, people that are just >>>> looking >>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> a wiki that's nice to use and "not-ugly", might be put off by >>> yet >>>>>>>>>> another layer of complexity, and might drop XWiki from their >>> list >>>> of >>>>>>>>>> candidates. In other words, it alienates even more the kind of >>>> users >>>>>>>>>> that already perceive XWiki as hard to use and overly complex. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> So, are we willing to trade one type of users for the other? >> It >>>>> would >>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>> in line with our vision of "enterprise collaboration", but I >>> still >>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>> we shouldn't voluntarily alienate any kind of users. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> An alternative is to wait for a real flavor, and then ask in >> the >>>>> first >>>>>>>>>> step of the distribution manager what kind of usage do we >> want. >>> In >>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> meantime, we can still polish the pages that will go in the >>>>>> "workspaces" >>>>>>>>>> flavor. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> So, -0 for switching to "workspaces only" in 5.2, unless we >> have >>>>>> really >>>>>>>>>> good backwards compatibility and a flavor for a simple wiki >> for >>>>>> textual >>>>>>>>>> collaboration. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I hope the above allays your fears :) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>> -Vincent _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
