@All, it doesn’t really matter whether it was in a proposal or not… we don’t need to find culprits and again it’s normal to change one’s mind, especially after something has been released and tried out.
If we don’t agree about the current location (and several of us don’t like it) we should do something about it and rather now than later (since we have the chance to release a 6.2.2 real soon and thus not have users use something we may not want for a lengthy period of time). Is anyone strongly against doing what GuillaumeD has shown in: http://tof.canardpc.com/view/19c9c68f-9dae-440e-ad82-3b8a6cc4623a.jpg ? (either with “Add” or “Create”, personally I don’t care that much but I do care about the move of the button + about the search bar move to the right) Thanks -Vincent On 2 Oct 2014 at 09:54:59, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) (vali...@gmail.com(mailto:vali...@gmail.com)) wrote: > Hi, > > The Add - Wiki option was not in the proposal, since in that version Wikis > were not enabled by default. The proposal just list the 'Add' entries > available for that particular XE version. But as long as you have in a menu > the option to create pages and spaces, is IMO implicit to also be able to > create the wiki type entities, from consistency point of view. > > When we added Wikis by default, we had a dedicated proposal for the content > of the 'Add' menu here > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/CreateWikiImprovements > > Thanks, > Caty > > > > On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 2:59 AM, Denis Gervalle wrote: > > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 7:43 PM, Eduard Moraru > > wrote: > > > > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 8:14 PM, Denis Gervalle wrote: > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 5:40 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < > > > > vali...@gmail.com > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 6:12 PM, Denis Gervalle > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 2:11 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < > > > > > > vali...@gmail.com > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 2:33 PM, Eduard Moraru < > > > enygma2...@gmail.com> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I kind of like this proposal. As Jeremie pointed out, we`re > > more > > > or > > > > > > less > > > > > > > > back where we started from, with the "improvement" that the > > "Add" > > > > > > button > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > now in the middle of the page, hard to miss :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, if we also rename "Add" to "Create", the only downside is > > > that > > > > > > > awkward > > > > > > > > feeling of more or less cloning Atlassian's UI. However, it's > > > > never a > > > > > > > > question of UI ownership or copying, but just of what works > > best > > > in > > > > > > > > practice and what makes sense. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Denis asked some days ago why some things changed from the > > original > > > > > > > Flamingo proposal "which we all agreed on". Apparently this is > > the > > > > > reason > > > > > > > some of the things changed: listening to different opinions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One of the reasons I'm a bit upset with these discussions is that > > > > when > > > > > we > > > > > > > proposed Flamingo, a prototype was also available, so all these > > > > > > 'concerns' > > > > > > > should have been noticed earlier, not in 6.2.1. These kind of > > > > > discussions > > > > > > > should happen in the Proposal phase, not in the Testing phase. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I completely agree with you on that point. And this is true for UI, > > > as > > > > > well > > > > > > as anything else on this project. We always need it realized to > > > > received > > > > > > criticisms. This probably a consequence of the fact that we are all > > > > very > > > > > > busy. That said, I do not remember seing a proposal that look like > > > the > > > > > > current result. And your initial proposal does not exhibit the > > issue > > > we > > > > > are > > > > > > actually discussing, which have been mainly started because of the > > > add > > > > > wiki > > > > > > option. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was always in the initial proposal > > > > > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/Skin4x > > > > > and more explicitly in the Menus section > > > > > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/Skin4xMenus > > > > > > > > > > > > Cathy, you have not read me carefully, where do you see an option to > > add > > > a > > > > wiki in those proposals ? > > > > > > > > > > The current thread/discussion is about the new location of the "Add" > > menu, > > > not about the "Add Wiki" option (please use the other thread for that). > > It > > > was not started because of the "Add Wiki" option disagreement (that was > > > just an example/excuse), but because this particular choice of location > > was > > > never discussed/argued to begin with, even if the proposal received a > > > positive feedback as a whole. > > > > > > > Ok, let keep the button in place in this thread, and move it in the other > > one. How funny you are :) > > > > > > > > > > IMO, that just proves that we did not analyse the proposal well enough, > > and > > > maybe that some of us just preferred to assume stuff instead of > > > asking/discussing. > > > > > > > I think, that I have clearly agree on that. Moreover, the proposal was fine > > for me (without the Add Wiki option), and this is you that initiate a > > discussion, after the fact, about the position of that button, isn't it ? > > > > > > > > > > I think we should focus more on making it right instead of finding > > blame... > > > > > > > Have I blame anyone in particular, I just blame all of us for not taking > > enough care to proposals, and I also found us some excuse. What is wrong > > with that ? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Eduard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also all the changes proposed in Flamingo, where discussed > > before. > > > We > > > > > > used > > > > > > > 'Add' naming because 'Create' was less used 'in the wild', was > > > > shorter, > > > > > > > etc. We moved the Add (from the Colibri position) because some > > > users > > > > > find > > > > > > > it difficult to locate, wanted to improve the actions grouping, > > > etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree, what I am proposing actually only came from the current > > > > > discussion > > > > > > and the evolution of it. It is not always easy to imagine good UI > > > > without > > > > > > tasting it for real. I think we should not care too much, and we > > > should > > > > > > look forward to finally getting the best UI ever, even if the > > process > > > > is > > > > > > not academic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I liked the Colibri's 'Add' position and I just want us to make > > > this > > > > > > change > > > > > > > because we think that is the best place for it, not because we > > are > > > > > > > influenced and think another product might have the magic > > solution > > > to > > > > > our > > > > > > > problems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you consider that after a 'period of testing' that location is > > > not > > > > > the > > > > > > > best place for the 'Add' button to be, than I agree we can > > 'revert' > > > > the > > > > > > > change. IMO the menus are still not optimal, but I guess only > > > testing > > > > > > could > > > > > > > give us an impartial answer. I would have liked a bit more time > > to > > > > test > > > > > > > this solution with 'normal' users, and I hope we don't do this > > > change > > > > > > > because regular/advanced users had a hard time to adapt to it. I > > > will > > > > > > > repeat myself, I think skins are allowed to have differences (but > > > > maybe > > > > > > > testing different solutions would be more acceptable if we had > > more > > > > > skins > > > > > > > or changed them more often). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not think we are complaining because we are advance, only > > > because > > > > it > > > > > > mixup "out of context" and "in context" actions. Which is for the > > end > > > > > user, > > > > > > surely a source of confusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > Cathy, do not feel too upset of all these changes, you have made a > > > > great > > > > > > job preparing this new skin, it just need polishing as any of what > > we > > > > > do. I > > > > > > know it is frustrating that preview are not look at carefully > > enough, > > > > but > > > > > > that's life :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :) > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Caty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > Caty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding the addition of yet another "Add" button for > > > page-related > > > > > > > > entries, as suggested by Denis, I`m not sure it's such a good > > > > idea. I > > > > > > > never > > > > > > > > did like modals that much in web interfaces and, AFAIK, they > > are > > > > not > > > > > > > > recommended that much in HCI (Human-Computer Interaction) > > classes > > > > > > either, > > > > > > > > for the simple reason that they are too volatile and are not > > > > friendly > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > the browser's "Back" button. I think we already have enough > > > > shortcuts > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > the 'More Actions' section and the 'Edit' dropdown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Eduard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 1:20 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < > > > > > > > > mariusdumitru.flo...@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 1:07 PM, Denis Gervalle < > > d...@softec.lu> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 11:04 AM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" > > > > > Delhumeau > > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > > gdelhum...@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Even better: > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > http://tof.canardpc.com/view/19c9c68f-9dae-440e-ad82-3b8a6cc4623a.jpg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes that one looks very cool to me but... :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wonder if the name would not be better to be "Create". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since, I think we still need an another button in the page > > > > called > > > > > > > "Add" > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > add to the page: > > > > > > > > > > * annotations using modal (you may select, than use the > > > button > > > > > > > > normally) > > > > > > > > > > * comment using a modal (without having to scroll to the > > > > bottom) > > > > > > > > > > * attachement using a modal (without having to scroll to > > the > > > > > > > bottom), > > > > > > > > > > * objects using a modal (without necessarily needing to > > load > > > > all > > > > > > > > > existing > > > > > > > > > > objects for edit, so a page could show objects without > > having > > > > to > > > > > > > manage > > > > > > > > > > addition of new ones, AWSeconds) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This way, the extradoc tabs could be hidden, independently > > of > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > comment/attachment functionality, and the pain of scrolling > > > to > > > > > the > > > > > > > > bottom > > > > > > > > > > is removed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Adding a comment or uploading a file using a modal box is > > fine. > > > > > > > > > Viewing the comments/attachments in a modal box is not a good > > > > idea > > > > > > > > > IMO. The user expects to see the comments/attachments after > > the > > > > > > > > > content. I don't think we can hide the extradoc tabs. Or > > maybe > > > I > > > > > > > > > misunderstood. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It give also some logic to those button, with a > > > non-contextual > > > > > > > > > > create button, and a contextual add button. We could then > > > allow > > > > > > > > > application > > > > > > > > > > to hook both of them depending on their needs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Another, a bit off-topic, remarks, is that in the More > > > actions, > > > > > > > > > annotation > > > > > > > > > > should be isolated, and work like a toggle to display/hide > > > them > > > > > > > > > (including > > > > > > > > > > the author filter box and the tooltips), without needing to > > > > > click a > > > > > > > > > > seperate checkbox. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WDYT ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> 2014-10-01 10:59 GMT+02:00 Guillaume "Louis-Marie" > > > Delhumeau < > > > > > > > > > >> gdelhum...@xwiki.com>: > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > So basically, you want: > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://tof.canardpc.com/view/25ad0704-563e-41cd-bbf2-72c371912245.jpg > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > 2014-10-01 10:46 GMT+02:00 vinc...@massol.net < > > > > > > vinc...@massol.net > > > > > > > >: > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> On 1 Oct 2014 at 10:09:00, Guillaume Lerouge ( > > > > > > > guilla...@xwiki.com > > > > > > > > > >> (mailto: > > > > > > > > > >> >> guilla...@xwiki.com)) wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > Hi, > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > after discussing with Vincent this morning we came > > to a > > > > > > > > suggestion > > > > > > > > > >> that > > > > > > > > > >> >> > would fix my issue with the current location of the > > add > > > > > > button. > > > > > > > > The > > > > > > > > > >> idea > > > > > > > > > >> >> > would be to move the search bar to the left of the > > > menu, > > > > > and > > > > > > > put > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > >> >> "Add" > > > > > > > > > >> >> > button in its place. > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > Crude image explanation here: > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/hrxlj6n6pztigic/AddButton-Search.png > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > This way the "Add" button is back in a global menu, > > not > > > > in > > > > > a > > > > > > > menu > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > >> >> is > > > > > > > > > >> >> > contextual to the page, yet it stays very visible. In > > > > > > addition > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > >> this, > > > > > > > > > >> >> > since "Create wiki" is visible only to authorized > > > users, > > > > > it's > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > too > > > > > > > > > >> >> much > > > > > > > > > >> >> > in the way. Last item: this solves the issue of > > having > > > > the > > > > > > > "Edit" > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > >> >> "More > > > > > > > > > >> >> > actions" buttons separated from one another. > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > WDYT? > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> Sounds the best to me! :) I never really liked the move > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > > > Create > > > > > > > > > >> >> button in the page contextual menu (doesn’t make sense > > to > > > > > me). > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> FYI here’s what they have for: > > > > > > > > > >> >> - confluence: > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/948c4f24-2485-4b33-8452-1e6e1a2d6c74/cff5f5253f8324d9dc760cb9380c61d9 > > > > > > > > > >> >> - jira: > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/b8803c9b-4ea7-43dd-a2ed-1226080074f2/1f60d551a55a709cfc4aaca73dce9004 > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> Thanks > > > > > > > > > >> >> -Vincent > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > Guillaume > > > > > > > > > >> >> > ᐧ > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 9:12 AM, Eduard Moraru wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Guillaume Lerouge > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Ecaterina Moraru > > > > > > (Valica) > > > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > vali...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Guillaume > > > Lerouge > > > > < > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > m...@guillaumelerouge.com> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Ecaterina > > > Moraru > > > > > > > > (Valica) > > > > > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > vali...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Guillaume > > > > > Lerouge > > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > guilla...@xwiki.com> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > Hi Marius, > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Marius > > > > Dumitru > > > > > > > > Florea > > > > > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > mariusdumitru.flo...@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:58 PM, > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > Lerouge > > > > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > guilla...@xwiki.com> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:39 PM, > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > > > >> >> "Louis-Marie" > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Delhumeau < > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > gdelhum...@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> Hi Eddy, > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> 2014-09-25 11:59 GMT+02:00 Eduard > > > > Moraru < > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > enygma2...@gmail.com > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > >: > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Hi devs, > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > I`m not sure if we already have a > > > > > > discussion > > > > > > > > > >> started > > > > > > > > > >> >> on > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > this > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > topic, > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> in > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > my opinion, it's long overdue. I > > see > > > > > > people > > > > > > > > > start > > > > > > > > > >> >> being > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > confused > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > questions like this [1] start to > > be > > > > > asked. > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > The new location of the Add menu > > in > > > > > > Flamingo > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > problematic > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > IMO > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > various number of reasons: > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > - It falsely gives the impression > > > that > > > > > it > > > > > > > adds > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > page-related > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > entries > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > (i.e. > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > related to the current page), due > > to > > > > its > > > > > > > > current > > > > > > > > > >> >> location > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > (i.e. > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> page > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > content) > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > - It conflicts with AWM`s "Add new > > > > > Entry" > > > > > > > > button > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > More generally speaking, this is true > > > > for a > > > > > > lot > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > livetables. > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > We > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > need a generic "Create" button to be > > > > > > available > > > > > > > > > when we > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > instantiate > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > livetable. This could be useful for > > the > > > > > wiki > > > > > > > > index > > > > > > > > > >> >> page, for > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > the > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > user > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > directory, for all the AWM > > homepages... > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > I guess you like the files live table > > > from > > > > > the > > > > > > > File > > > > > > > > > >> >> Manager > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > then > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > :) > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/File+Manager+Application#HFileLiveTable > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > . Would be interesting to have such a > > > > toolbar > > > > > > > (with > > > > > > > > > >> >> support for > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > custom > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > buttons) before the live table don't > > you > > > > > think? > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > IMO the toolbar's functionality is already > > > > > covered > > > > > > by > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > 'Actions' > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > column > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > in the livetable. The only thing missing is > > > the > > > > > > > > 'Create' > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > I'm not sure this is the same use case. I can > > > see > > > > > at > > > > > > > > least > > > > > > > > > 3 > > > > > > > > > >> >> reasons > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > why: > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > IMO it's exactly the same use case, the only > > > > > difference > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > >> >> the > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > Actions > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > column was used as an intermediate solution > > > because > > > > > we > > > > > > > > didn't > > > > > > > > > >> had > > > > > > > > > >> >> bulk > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > actions in livetable (the ability to make > > > multiple > > > > > > entity > > > > > > > > > >> >> selection > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > (checkbox) - that's why we duplicate the > > entries > > > on > > > > > > each > > > > > > > > > row). > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > Great, this means that we agree on the fact that > > > the > > > > > > > > "Actions" > > > > > > > > > >> >> column > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > should be replaced by a "Select" column with > > > > checkboxes > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > it, > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > >> >> also > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > that Marius' horizontal livetable toolbar should > > be > > > > > > > expanded > > > > > > > > > to be > > > > > > > > > >> >> used > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > in > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > a generic fashion by all livetables :-) > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Not completely replaced because not all > > > > > operations/actions > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > >> >> performed > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > in bulk fashion. Take the 'edit' action and notice > > > that > > > > > it > > > > > > > is a > > > > > > > > > >> single > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > element action compared to 'delete'. > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > A different situation exists for the 'rename' > > action > > > > > since > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > >> more > > > > > > > > > >> >> of a > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > single element action, but can be presented as a > > bulk > > > > > > action > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > well > > > > > > > > > >> >> if you > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > provide some kind of renaming template like '_'. > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > In other words, both the bulk operations toolbar > > and > > > > the > > > > > > > > actions > > > > > > > > > >> >> column > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > have their right place in the livetable IMO and > > > having > > > > a > > > > > > > > checkbox > > > > > > > > > >> >> column > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > like Marius did for the FM livetable looks like the > > > > right > > > > > > way > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > go. > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Eduard > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > Caty > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > 1/ The "create" button would generate a new > > > > entry, > > > > > > > > whereas > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > "actions" > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > column is for actions that are related to > > > > > individual > > > > > > > > > entries > > > > > > > > > >> >> that > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > already > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > exist > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > 2/ The "actions" column can be removed by the > > > > > > livetable > > > > > > > > > >> creator > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > 3/ The toolbar would also be useful to handle > > > > bulk > > > > > > > > actions > > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > >> >> pages > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > such > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > as > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > "delete selected entries" (as in the file > > > > manager) > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Best, > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > Caty > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > Yes and yes :-) > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > Basically the button would let the > > user > > > > > > create > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > new > > > > > > > > > >> >> item of > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > the > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > same > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > type > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > than the items displayed in the > > > > livetable. > > > > > > > Right > > > > > > > > > now > > > > > > > > > >> we > > > > > > > > > >> >> do > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > this > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > in > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > ad-hoc fashion, so it would be great > > to > > > > > have > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > generic > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > solution. > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > It's > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > related to the automatic page name > > > > > generation > > > > > > > > > module > > > > > > > > > >> >> (that we > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > don't > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > the core yet, though there's an > > > > extensions > > > > > > > doing > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Unique+Identification+Number+Module > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > ). > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > - from my POV, looking at the page > > > > from > > > > > a > > > > > > > far, > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > >> >> new > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > location > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > looks > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > completely randomly selected: > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- It's not on the left/top (as > > > > > > > left-to-right > > > > > > > > > >> >> language > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > specific > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > brains > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> are > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > trained to follow) > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not exactly at the top > > > either > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not at the right > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not next to the type of > > > > elements > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > creates > > > > > > > > > >> >> (i.e. > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > next > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > WIKI/SPACE/PAGE) > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- it basically is almost in the > > > > middle > > > > > of > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > >> screen > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > - etc. (i.e. others that don`t > > come > > > > > right > > > > > > > now > > > > > > > > > to my > > > > > > > > > >> >> mind) > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> Personally, I like the fact that it > > is > > > > > > located > > > > > > > > > near > > > > > > > > > >> >> the Edit > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > button, > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> if it does not concern the current > > > page. > > > > > > > Because > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > >> >> groups > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > the > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > most > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > basic > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> and useful actions that you need > > when > > > > you > > > > > > want > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > contribute: > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > EDIT, > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > ADD. > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> To me, it makes sense. > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > I`d like to open a discussion on > > > this, > > > > > > since > > > > > > > > > it's > > > > > > > > > >> >> quite an > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > important > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> aspect > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > of the UI and, due to it's shiny > > > green > > > > > > color > > > > > > > > > (which > > > > > > > > > >> >> I like > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > :)), > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > it`s > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > hard > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > to miss. > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Is it just me who's resistant to > > > > change, > > > > > > or > > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > > >> >> others see > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > a > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > problem > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > here > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > with this as well? > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Eduard > > > > > > > > > >> >> _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > >> >> devs mailing list > > > > > > > > > >> >> devs@xwiki.org > > > > > > > > > >> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > -- > > > > > > > > > >> > Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhum...@xwiki.com) > > > > > > > > > >> > Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS > > > > > > > > > >> > Committer on the XWiki.org project > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> -- > > > > > > > > > >> Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhum...@xwiki.com) > > > > > > > > > >> Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS > > > > > > > > > >> Committer on the XWiki.org project > > > > > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > >> devs mailing list > > > > > > > > > >> devs@xwiki.org > > > > > > > > > >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > Denis Gervalle > > > > > > > > > > SOFTEC sa - CEO > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > devs mailing list > > > > > > > > > > devs@xwiki.org > > > > > > > > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > devs mailing list > > > > > > > > > devs@xwiki.org > > > > > > > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > devs mailing list > > > > > > > > devs@xwiki.org > > > > > > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > devs mailing list > > > > > > > devs@xwiki.org > > > > > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Denis Gervalle > > > > > > SOFTEC sa - CEO > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > devs mailing list > > > > > > devs@xwiki.org > > > > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > devs mailing list > > > > > devs@xwiki.org > > > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Denis Gervalle > > > > SOFTEC sa - CEO > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > devs mailing list > > > > devs@xwiki.org > > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > devs mailing list > > > devs@xwiki.org > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Denis Gervalle > > SOFTEC sa - CEO > > _______________________________________________ > > devs mailing list > > devs@xwiki.org > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > devs@xwiki.org > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
