Hello Chris,

Nick Sabalausky wrote:

"Daniel Keep"<daniel.keep.li...@gmail.com>  wrote in message
news:gmfujj$2t...@digitalmars.com...

Ary Borenszweig wrote:

Daniel Keep escribió:

"No files in this directory."

Well that sucks.  Oh well, I... hey, wait a second...

*unblocks javascript*

"No files in this directory, but there ARE subdirectories!"

Sometimes, I really wish there was a way to electrocute people for
making their sites break without Javascript...

What? Why?

A web like that without Javascript is awfuly slow and ugly...

So... not having a scripting language would make pages run slower.

...

I *really* hope you're joking.

As for the "ugly" argument, that's bunk as well.  The only two
things you can't do without Javascript is to perform dynamic
positioning and visibility.  But you don't NEED those to make
aesthetically pleasing pages.  Just go look at CSS Zen Garden.

*deep breath*

<tirade>

I have no problem with having scripting available for pages in
general. But what DOES make me spew LIQUID HATE from every bodily
orifice [1] is when they use Javascript to REPLACE FUNCTIONALITY
THAT HTML ALREADY HAS.

Like the sites where instead of using hyperlinks, they use
Javascript in onclick events.  Gee thanks, a**hole, you just broke
tabs.  Thanks for dictating how I'm allowed to view your site!

Or the sites where they "inject" the content of the page like this:

<script>document.write("THE PAGE CONTENT");</script>

Or pages where they have forms that go over perfectly ordinary HTTP
POST and use perfectly ordinary form elements... but the submit
button doesn't work BECAUSE IT REQUIRES F**KING SCRIPTING.

This sort of bulls**t is inexcusable.  It's like breaking someone's
legs and saying "but now you can use crutches; isn't that great?!"

No, you broke my legs you bastard!

What's more, thanks to the plague of popup ads, ads that hang your
browser for 5 seconds every time you mouse over the word "synergy"
in an article, ads that show up in the same window but OVER the
content, ads that play music or stream video when I'm on a
QUOTA-LIMITED 'net connection, ads that start TALKING to you if your
mouse goes anywhere near them or sites that just generally abuse the
hell out of scripting, I'm amazed ANYONE browses the web with
Javascript enabled by default. Frankly, if you build a site that
utterly depends on Javascript to function [2], then you're an
_idiot_.

You want to use JS to make the site more usable?  That's great!  But
you DO NOT break basic functionality to do it.  EVER.  If you can't
figure out how, you're not qualified to be writing JS for web pages
[3].

As someone who used to do web development: anyone, **ANYONE** who
does this should be taken out back, shot, hung, drawn&  quartered
then buried upside-down at a crossroads under a crucifix with a
steak through the heart and a silver bullet in the head.  Then burn
and salt the earth just to make sure.

</tirade>

Sorry about that, but MAN do I feel better.

-- Daniel

[1] ... to borrow a phrase from Ben Croshaw.

[2] Obviously, this doesn't apply for sites that GENUINELY cannot
function without Javascript.  Stuff like Google Docs or a Javascript
image editor; that stuff is fine because HTML can't do that.

This is by far the best description/explanation of the evils of
Javascript I have ever seen. It might sound a little extreme to some
people, but speaking as another person who has done plenty of web
development, there is absolutely no way to cover this topic
*properly* without putting it in such terms. If the above rant is
overly-*anything*, it's overly conciliatory. There's just no excuse
for so many of the things that most web developers do.

Now if we can only nudge Daniel to give the same treatment to Firefox
3... ;)

BTW, Daniel, if you're on Firefox, you need to install the Adblock
Plus addon and set it up with some of the subscriptions here:
http://adblockplus.org/en/subscriptions  I'm not exaggerating when I
say that for a few months before I found that addon, using the web
was so bad I was *very* close to abandoning use of the web entirely.
(I have some other addon recommendations too, if you're interested.)
In fact, that addon is the main reason I use Firefox as my primary
browser even though I generally dislike Firefox. This addon still
doesn't solve all of the problems with JS, but it at least changes to
web from "completely unusable garbage" (and that's no exaggeration)
to merely "frequently irritating".

You must frequent some fantastically horrible websites.  I use the
'net quite frequently, and I don't experience anywhere near enough
consternation to even consider finding a popup blocker.



Yeah, I don't go to that many websites beyong a usual few. Firefox's built-in popup blocker has been sufficient for me (and it usually tells me when it has blocked a popup). It's actually been a long time since I've worried too much about popups. I /do/ remember the day, though, when popups were a problem, and it was annoying.

My beef is mostly with JS and Flash which noscript handles quite well.

-JJR


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