On Friday, December 02, 2011 23:38:43 Timon Gehr wrote: > On 12/02/2011 11:28 PM, Jonathan M Davis wrote: > > On Friday, December 02, 2011 22:44:41 Timon Gehr wrote: > >> On 12/02/2011 10:38 PM, Marco Leise wrote: > >>> Am 02.12.2011, 21:50 Uhr, schrieb Timon Gehr<timon.g...@gmx.ch>: > >>>> On 12/02/2011 09:44 PM, Timon Gehr wrote: > >>>>> Except that _Eclipse_ does not do anything to achieve this. It > >>>>> just > >>>>> invokes ant, which invokes javac, which is presumably written in > >>>>> C > >>>>> and > >>>>> C++. > >>>> > >>>> Seems like I was wrong about this. > >>>> > >>>>> I can do that in a console without waiting 5 minutes until the > >>>>> IDE > >>>>> has finished starting. > >>>> > >>>> But this is still true. > >>> > >>> No you are all wrong :p, it takes half a minute for Eclipse to start > >>> up. Yes, this is still more than a native executable would need. > >>> Still I use it for Java, D, JavaScript and PHP. It's awesome! I > >>> also sneak in Eclipse project files into github repositories to > >>> make the awesomeness available to others: > >>> https://github.com/aichallenge/aichallenge/tree/epsilon/eclipse_proj > >>> ects>> > >> It feels like 5 minutes if you are accustomed to open the text editor > >> and start working. > >> > >> But I am sure there is something to IDE's, as many programmers seem to > >> like them. > > > > They can do wonders with code completion and making it easy to hop to > > declarations and the like. They also are often able to point out errors > > in your code as you're typing it, which can be quite helpful. I > > frequently miss many of the features that IDEs like eclipse have when I > > code (I do all of my coding in vim these days, regardless of the > > language). But I _really_ value the power that vim provides in terms of > > text editing, and I haven't found an IDE yet which I can get to emulate > > vim well enough to be acceptable in that regard, so I don't use them. > > I'd definitely like to though. > > > > - Jonathan M Davis > > I'm more an emacs guy, and I jump to declarations by (maybe C-x C-f > filename ENTER) M-s \w+ identifier ENTER (and a few C-s for the > occasional false positives), and I can use similar techniques to not > only reach a specific declaration, but any specific position in the > whole code. I don't think that it is any slower than always lifting your > hands from the keyboard in order to be able to use the mouse and slow > IDE functionality.
It's more a question of functionality. I cannot acceptibly jump to declarations in vim _period_. Stuff like ctags and cscope absolutely suck in comparison to a decent IDE, and AFAIK that's all vim really has for enabling the ability to do stuff like jump to declarations. I don't know if emacs uses the same underlying programs or whether it does it on its own, so I don't know how it compares. I'd gladly be hopping to declarations using vim with whatever shortcut it is if it could actually do it right, but ctags just isn't smart enough to do it accurately based on function overloading and the like, and I have to constantly worry about updating it, making sure that the vim instance that I'm using points to the right ctags file, etc. It just isn't acceptable IMHO, so I don't bother with it, but vim's other benefits outweigh the overall benefits of the IDE for me, so I still use vim. In any case, what I listed were just examples of what a good IDE can do. There's plenty of other stuff that you'd probably miss if you had been heavily using them in an IDE before. But I can completely understand thinking that a solid text editor is overall better than an IDE, since I use vim for precisely that reason. - Jonathan M Davis
