On Monday, June 04, 2012 23:22:26 Bernard Helyer wrote: > On Monday, 4 June 2012 at 20:44:42 UTC, bearophile wrote: > > Bernard Helyer: > >> If you find yourself using postfix increment/decrement > >> operators in the same function call in multiple arguments, > >> slap yourself firmly in the face and refactor that code. > > > > I think this is not acceptable, you can't rely on that, future > > D programers will not slap themselves and refactor their code. > > Some of the acceptable alternatives are: > > 1) Make post/pre increments return void. This avoid those > > troubles. I think Go language has chosen this. This is my > > preferred solution. > > 2) Turn that code into a syntax error for some other cause. > > 3) Design the language so post/pre increments give a defined > > effect on all D compilers on all CPUs. Walter since lot of time > > says this is planned for D. This leads to deterministic > > programs, but sometimes they are hard to understand and hard to > > translate (port) to other languages any way. Translating code > > to other languages is not irrelevant because D must be designed > > to make it easy to understand the semantics of the code. > > > > Bye, > > bearophile > > If people can't be bothered to understand what they write, they > can go hang.
I think that Bernard is being a bit harsh, but in essence, I agree. Since the evaluation order of arguments is undefined, programmers should be aware of that and code accordingly. If they don't bother to learn, then they're going to get bitten, and that's life. Now, Walter _has_ expressed interest in changing it so that the order of evaluation for function arguments is fully defined as being left-to-right, which solves the issue. I'd still council against getting into the habit of writing code which relies on the order of evaluation for the arguments to a function, since it's so common for other languages not to define it (so that the compiler can better optimize the calls), and so getting into the habit of writing code which _does_ depend on the order of evalution for function arguments will cause you to write bad code you when you work in most other programming languages. As for treating pre or post-increment operators specially in some manner, that doesn't make sense. The problem is far more general than that. If we're going to change anything, it would be to make it so that the language itself defines the order of evaluation of function arguments as being left-to-right. - Jonathan M Davis