Craig, Based on your comments, you stated that:
"PactorIII/WinLink is a commercial for profit enterprise that happens to use amateur frequencies under current rules,..." I was assuming you included the Winlink 2000 system. Of course Winlink (older system that Winlink 2000 developers would like to see shut down) is a strictly RF ham radio messaging system and Winlink 2000 is the newer internet messaging system that uses the minimum amount of amateur radio possible to conserve on the very limited frequencies in the ham bands. SCS has nothing to do with Winlink/Winlink 2000 or the other messaging systems that are being developed. It is a modem company in Germany. At this time there is nothing that can compete with these modems unless you go to very expensive Mil Spec equipment for considerably more money. It is no different than HAL, Kantronics or Time Wave (AEA) with their modems. No one gives them away for free. Even sound cards and computers are not given away for free. I can not operate Pactor or Clover II because I have decided not to purchase this kind of equipment anymore. (I did have HAL, Kantronics, AEA, etc. a decade or two ago). While I agree with you that proprietary modes should not be used on amateur radio, I don't consider Winlink or Winlink 2000, PSKmail, JNOS2, etc. to be commercial enterprises operating for profit. They are actually mode neutral and could work with any number of modes depending on the skill of the programmer. In order to be legal here in the U.S. ham bands, the mode used must have a public technical description. The FCC has determined that if this is done on a site such as the ARRL's, that is adequate to comply with the rule: http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/regulations/techchar/PACTOR-III.html Some of these modes have been documented for years and would include other modes such as the complex waveform of Clover II. The problem is that few of these modes can be produced or decoded using a computer and sound card. At least one software developer has indicated that you would need at least a magnitude of computational power to equal the dedicated processor in the SCS product. Even Pactor I, which has been around for nearly 20 years, does not work well on a computer, even on Linux OS due to timing issues. The SCAMP mode, which works very well under good signal conditions, gets around much of the limitations of current computational power, but due to the choice of mode, with a fairly high baud rate, was not able to handle moderate to weak signals. There are almost no programmers with the ability and desire to write this kind of software and so we have limited ARQ modes via sound card. There is PAX and PAX2 on Windows OS and of course PSKmail on Linux OS but they are relatively slow and can not compete with even Pactor 2, much less Pactor 3. All it would take would be for the ARRL to insist that good amateur practice would require that all automatic (and semi-automatic modes) have busy channel detection, and that would move the companies that sell these modems to develop such software or hardware for their system. We already know it works well since this was built into the SCAMP mode even though there were those who said it was not possible to do. I might suggest that instead of being sick about all this, it might be more useful to promote solutions. There are some things we can not fix, but there are those things that a concerted effort can fix. In my view, this is one of the things that can be fixed. 73, Rick, KV9U Craig Cook wrote: >SCS gives away the modems at cost or for free? News to me. >Can I use a soundcard program to detect it and monitor it, as I should be >able to do as a licensed amateur? No, it is not open to the public. >Will West Mountain Radio, MFJ, or some other company start selling a more >reasonably priced modem? No. Will elecraft come out with a pactor III modem >kit, at an even more reasonable price? No. Can I build my own, using >publicly available knowledge provided by SCS? No. My point was that if the >pactor 3 modems were built such that they would not ever transmit on a busy >frequency, no matter the detected mode already in use on the frequency (18 >2+ Khz channels on 20 meters alone, according to bandplans.com) they would >be deemed practically useless, and SCS's sales would hurt. That is why they >do not bother to add this feature. I never said the people that invented >winlink to provide yacht-mail or whatever they were thinking at the time >were charging for any services. My main bitch comes down to malicious QRM , >which I have been subject to on numerous occasions. If you want to use >amateur radio to bypass the internet or commercial satellite services, which >should, by the way, be within the financial reach of someone with a yacht >and an SCS modem, then be my guest. I was simply stating why I thought the >feature would never get added. Nothing will change, and I really don't care >anymore. If other people in the past accused the inventors of Winlink of >charging for a profit, I don't know anything about that. Why don't you go >ask them why they said it? I didn't. I'm as sick of this nonsense as I am of >Pactor automatically starting up all over 20 meters without listening first. > >On 6/21/06, KV9U <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> Craig, >> >>Where exactly is the money exchanging hands? I have heard this type of >>comment a number of times and found the exact opposite from what you are >>saying. >> >>The Winlink 2000 system is completely free to use and the four hams or >>so who developed, own, and control this system have donated their time >>and equipment for years and years all the way back to the original >>Aplink system and later the Winlink, Netlink, and eventually the >>primarily internet based Winlink 2000 system. >> >>There are other systems that may be using the software, such as >>SailMail, that are somewhat commercial but even that looks to be more of >>a cooperative. >> >>How about being forthright with the facts? >> >>73, >> >>Rick, KV9U >> >> >>Craig Cook wrote: >> >> >> >>>If QRM-Tor III modems did listen for a busy channel, much less traffic >>> >>> >>would >> >> >>>get through. Thurston Howell won't be able to send free email from his >>>luxury yacht, possibly hurting sales of modems. Don't count on it ever >>>happening. PactorIII/WinLink is a commercial for profit enterprise that >>>happens to use amateur frequencies under current rules, unfortunately. I >>>wish those rule loopholes to be closed someday, but I may be dreaming. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/SISQkA/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/ELTolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Need a Digital mode QSO? Connect to Telnet://cluster.dynalias.org Other areas of interest: The MixW Reflector : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup/ DigiPol: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipol (band plan policy discussion) Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! 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