James, On Sun, Nov 29, 2015 at 2:40 PM, James Carthew <jcart...@gmail.com> wrote: > I'm going to weigh in here in the UI discussions. I come from a mainly user > background. A couple observations. Yes gnustep is a bit ugly, but that's not > really my biggest concern. I have been trying to run GNUStep as a desktop > environment mostly to replace OSX on Linux. It is not a viable replacement > at this time. My reasons are this: I can only open a single terminal tab per > terminal window (this is causing my screens to get cluttered even though I > have huge screen real estate 2.5k/4k monitors). Lack of a web browser (if I > run any third party browser my Apple style horizontal menu disappears. This > is extremely annoying, Mantella will not compile with modern firefox and > wrapping a browser is beyond my programming capabilities). Lack of tools to > configure simple desktop settings such as xrandr, pulseaudio and > network-manager (gnustep needs arandr ported to it, preferably as a > SystemPreferences.app module) These are all things which destroy the user > experience for me. The theme isn't that important to me, I want GNUStep > because I can use it to run as Apple style, Windows style or Next style, > throw an Amiga Style, and a tablet style in and you've covered all of the > deskop UI styles most people want to run these days.
I think you have some great observations here. A browser is something I've been thinking about doing for a very long time. > On 29 November 2015 at 18:10, Gregory Casamento <greg.casame...@gmail.com> > wrote: >> >> Riccardo, >> >> On Sun, Nov 29, 2015 at 9:16 AM, Riccardo Mottola >> <riccardo.mott...@libero.it> wrote: >> > Hi, >> > >> > Gregory Casamento wrote: >> >>> >> >>> I absolutely want "our" menus, they are distinctive and useful and if >> >>> I >> >>> were >> >>> >to make a reference distribution, I'd want to retain that. >> >> >> >> They are OLD. More important than their usefulness is what they >> >> invoke and that is they make people think that we are NeXTSTEP and >> >> OPENSTEP only. Like it or not our old look is part of our problem. >> >> I'm sorry you don't like this fact, but it is based on tons of first >> >> hand observation over the last ten years. >> > >> > >> > I'm sorry you mix look and with interface design. Facts and factoids. >> >> Which are factoids? All of the observations from people at the >> events, on twitter, etc... are based on personal experience. I hear >> it every day. Not factoids... these are widely held opinions. I'm >> sorry you don't want to believe it. >> >> > Actually, our menus are NEW, they are newer than in-window menus and >> > one-menu-bar on the top which came from Mac and Motif/OS2/Windows. They >> > have >> > close parents and predecessors (e.g. SGI menus, Amiga menus) but NeXT >> > made >> > them consistent. >> >> They are from 1985. Sorry, they evoke images of the past. >> >> > The interaction with our menus makes NeXT & GNUstep distinctive and as >> > trying to port applications back and forth it allows for a unique >> > interaction. It allows, for example to have very smooth document based >> > applications which are impossible to achieve (as still the latest office >> > suite of a big software company proves) with in-window menus. >> > It offers the same functionality as a top menu bar, but is more flexible >> > and >> > works well with big screens or multiple-screens. We do not need to >> > invent >> > things like "tearable menus" and even "palettes" are not strictly >> > necessary. >> >> Distinctive, perhaps. Perhaps there is a way we could make them more >> modern and still keep them next like. I am not advocating getting rid >> of them or going for in-window or menu-bar menus (on the top of the >> screen)... what I'm suggesting is something like what was originally >> proposed by Jesse a few years ago in the attached file. >> >> > Thus, playing the same song is of no good for anybody. >> >> I would very much like to see our interface changed to something >> everyone can be in love with. This is only good for the project. >> Our out of the box experience with users SUCKS ROCKS and this is >> something we need to think about. >> >> > Riccardo >> >> GC >> -- >> Gregory Casamento >> GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal Consultant >> http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com >> http://ind.ie/phoenix/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Discuss-gnustep mailing list >> Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org >> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss-gnustep mailing list > Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org > https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep > -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com http://ind.ie/phoenix/ _______________________________________________ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep