Kevin, Anne, Thanks for your comments. I think you get my point. This article has nothing to do with IxD.
It surprises me immensely to find readers on THIS list missing the central point of my article. When I refer to "design engineers" I am NOT referring to designers of human-facing form and behavior. Design engineers, as you two see, design code, not interaction. It is similarly important to understand that design engineers are not better or worse than production engineers. They just have different goals. Building software is a larger undertaking than most people give it credit for. It's large enough to require a LOT of design. The code needs to be designed just as much as the human face needs to be designed. In the past, software construction has been hampered by the lack of human-facing design. Today, we do a much better job of designing the human face, but all too frequently the human-facing design isn't built correctly or well because the code is poorly designed, or not designed at all. I am sorry now that we decided to publish this article in two parts. I'll see if I can get the second part posted to this list. Thanx, Alan __________ cooper | Product Design for a Digital World Alan Cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.cooper.com All information in this message is proprietary & confidential. "There is no country with a military so powerful, an economy so strong, and a culture so great that its politicians cannot pull it down." - Donald Gilbert Carpenter -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Silver Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 3:32 PM To: Anne Hjortshoj Cc: IxDA list Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Alan Cooper on Software Design: Code=Design? Thanks Anne, you hit nail on the head. This is how I read the article and I can from personal experience relate to Coopers sentiments. I think there is a distinction between designing how something should work and then designing how you should build it. Cooper refers to the latter as Design Engineering. Having in a former life written multiple lines of code I can in my experience tell there is a difference between design code and production code. I've spent a lot of time coding just to figure out how to build something, which can wind up being unwieldy and not pretty, but somehow still makes it into production because it works. Which was always unfortunate. I am dealing with an interface redesign project that has a code foundation that wasn't architected--designed. I have seen this in a lot of projects, especially internal applications that are being productized. Is Cooper saying forethought in how to build it is just as important as how it works? If there is a misnomer with Cooper's article is that he left out the idea of the software architect which in my mind is equivalent to the design engineer; the one who figures out how to build it. Once again I chuckled reading this as I did when I first read Inmates. As an aside, Dave's comment on form was interesting: "What I think is the problem with Interaction Design which is intrinsically related to Coopers argument but from a more semantic side is that "interaction design" actually is the only design medium that doesn't require FORM at all. It is behavioral and requires "formational" (I'm making this up) design disciplines to bring it to life. One such discipline is UI Design/Engineering." I don't agree with this fully; it depends on how you define form. I like to think of IxD's form as an intersection between 5-Dimensions of a design language and a conversation as described in this diagram I created: http://www.uxmatters.com/MT/archives/images/silver-ixd- fig_1.jpg. Don't mean to lead us down the rabbit hole of semantics, I just think its interesting that form always has to be something tangible. Again just a thought that is semantical and maybe even contradictory to my diagram and what I have written in the past. Kevin On Oct 30, 2007, at 1:50 PM, Anne Hjortshoj wrote: > IMO, "Design engineer" does not equal "designer" in this article. > Cooper is > describing well-designed code, not well-designed interfaces. > > I'm confused that his essay is being interpreted as an attack on > interaction > design. He states very clearly in his essay that he's not talking > about this > -- he's addressing the difference between easy-to-iterate (but > invisible to > the user!) "design code" and robust "production code." > > 2cents, > > -Anne > > > > On 10/30/07, Katie Albers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> As far as I can tell, you're comfortable with Cooper's division of >> engineers -- although you're accustomed to different terminology...so >> let's pass over that. >> >> It seems that you believe that there once was a tendency for builders >> to start building before the underlying work of the designer was in >> place, but that that no longer happens in today's good companies. All >> I can really say to that is "wow! Have you ever been lucky!" >> >> First of all, keep in mind that for many/most of us, our >> understanding of the professional SW world is skewed by the simple >> fact that we work with and for companies that are smart enough to >> hire us. Thus, they implicitly acknowledge the existence and >> importance of IxD. >> >> But it is still very much the case that the work of interaction >> design gets relegated to the hands of the "builders" much of the >> time, in my experience. Time constraints, resource constraints, >> failure to understand that just because the engineer *can* work out a >> way to get from point A to point B does not mean it will be a good >> way...All these things and so many more frequently mean that the >> "design" part just doesn't get done except by default. >> >> On the whole, I think the problem described by Cooper remains...and >> has remained through many revisions and definitions of who works on >> SW teams and what they do and how they do it. System Analysts -- to >> my mind -- are a primary example of the obduracy of the engineering >> problem. Many moons ago SAs were the individuals trusted with working >> out the people-facing side of an app. Very few of them could code and >> they weren't generally encouraged to learn how. Now coding is a >> standard requirement for Systems Analysts and we are back to trying >> to figure out where to locate the underlying design functions for SW. >> >> Some companies are good at separating and integrating the parts of >> the process and others aren't. Interestingly, I've always found >> start-ups to be better at it than existing and larger companies. >> >> Katie >> >> >> >> At 2:03 PM -0400 10/30/07, Rich Rogan wrote: >>> In Coopers article he seems to "Jump the Shark", (makes >>> assumptions that >>> have little relevance to most companies I've worked for), when he >>> writes: >>> >>> "Of course you can see how both of these problems, (engineers >>> don't know >>> how/can't follow design), would stem from the same root: if a >>> programmer >> has >>> never learned to follow a written design, then he would structure >>> his >> daily >>> work to do without. He would attempt to do the necessary design >>> himself, >>> concurrent with the construction effort. *And that is exactly what >>> programmers at all levels and in all sub-disciplines of computer >> programming >>> do*: *they design code at the same time as they build it.* If we >>> could >>> untangle these two parts of the programming job, we could begin >>> to defeat >>> the apocalyptic horsemen." >>> >>> He then goes on to identify two types of engineers which I have >>> always >> heard >>> called "Engineers", (Cooper calls them "builders") and "Architects", >> (Cooper >>> calls them "designers"). >>> >>> Every place I've worked at/heard of, that was a professional/ >>> respectable >>> software co., not in ultra start up mode, did upfront design, >>> besides >>> "Architectural Software" design. It seems he is implying that >> "Interaction >>> Design" as a profession is some new concept, which few software >>> engineers/projects have heard of or incorporate. >>> >>> This seems to be very old news, and not really relevant in todays >>> market, >> or >>> do I just work for ultra bleeding edge organizations when it >>> comes to >>> process? I like Alan's premise of promoting our discipline, but >>> he seems >> to >>> be looking from the past, (very far past in SW terms - 10 yrs >>> back or >> so). >>> >>> Did anyone else get this from the article? >> >> -- >> >> ---------------- >> Katie Albers >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> ________________________________________________________________ >> *Come to IxDA Interaction08 | Savannah* >> February 8-10, 2008 in Savannah, GA, USA >> Register today: http://interaction08.ixda.org/ >> >> ________________________________________________________________ >> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! >> To post to this list ....... [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Unsubscribe ................ http://gamma.ixda.org/unsubscribe >> List Guidelines ............ http://gamma.ixda.org/guidelines >> List Help .................. http://gamma.ixda.org/help >> > > > > -- > Anne Hjortshoj | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.annehj.com > ________________________________________________________________ > *Come to IxDA Interaction08 | Savannah* > February 8-10, 2008 in Savannah, GA, USA > Register today: http://interaction08.ixda.org/ > > ________________________________________________________________ > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! > To post to this list ....... [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Unsubscribe ................ http://gamma.ixda.org/unsubscribe > List Guidelines ............ http://gamma.ixda.org/guidelines > List Help .................. http://gamma.ixda.org/help Kevin Silver Clearwired Web Services 10899 Montgomery, Suite C Albuquerque, NM 87109 office: 505.217.3505 toll-free: 866.430.2832 fax: 505.217.3506 e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] w: www.clearwired.com ________________________________________________________________ *Come to IxDA Interaction08 | Savannah* February 8-10, 2008 in Savannah, GA, USA Register today: http://interaction08.ixda.org/ ________________________________________________________________ Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ....... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe ................ http://gamma.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines ............ http://gamma.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .................. http://gamma.ixda.org/help ________________________________________________________________ *Come to IxDA Interaction08 | Savannah* February 8-10, 2008 in Savannah, GA, USA Register today: http://interaction08.ixda.org/ ________________________________________________________________ Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ....... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe ................ http://gamma.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines ............ http://gamma.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .................. http://gamma.ixda.org/help
