Thanks for the link's I have added these to my Delicious account for later reading.
In a similar vein to your point, tone of voice and branded content will become more important as they will increasingly live and breath outside of a site. This is already important with RSS. In fact I think this topic is mentioned within the following article: http://www.digital-web.com/articles/web_2_for_designers/ I wonder if in the future we would have a greater dependence upon the Agents (apps, borwsers) to decide which are credible sources of information and which are not. On Jan 16, 2008 12:08 PM, Alexander Baxevanis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Dan, > > something that was not really mentioned so far is that there are still > two major problems associated with the deployment of the Semantic Web. > > First of all, there is the issue of trust. Not all information can be > equally trusted, so your traditional Semantic Web "shopping scenario" > would fall apart unless there is a way to make sure your results are > clean from rogue retailers, non-existent offers and all kinds of > related spam. Looking at current websites like Wikipedia, there is > still a lot to be desired in terms of trust and verifiability of > information, despite their best efforts to sort these problems out. I > see this as a big challenge to which interaction design can definitely > contribute. > > Second, there is no way of making a great ontology of everything, that > everyone will agree with (ontology is a data model that represents a > set of concepts within a domain and the relationships between those > concepts). This is even for small domains like shopping: when I moved > to another country a couple of years ago I was initially quite puzzled > with the way some things were categorised in UK online shopping > websites, which was not quite the same taxonomy that I had formed in > my brain while growing up in another part of the world. Again, it's a > big challenge how to reconcile these different views of the world if > you'd like to produce some unified set of results. > > An interesting (although maybe a bit outdated) article that mentions > the above problems in more detail can be found at: > http://www.techreview.com/Infotech/12640/ > > Some more sceptic opinions at: > http://www.shirky.com/writings/semantic_syllogism.html > > http://www.oreillynet.com/xml/blog/2006/06/the_7_flaws_of_the_semantic_we.html > > Regards, > Alex > > On Jan 16, 2008 11:19 AM, Dan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Thanks for your responses, I find this a really interesting topic and > your > > thoughts have been equally interesting. Here are a couple more thoughts > of > > mine below: > > > > Bryan... > > >on the other hand, that still leaves a big area open - the type of > content > > that orients > > >someone around a particular subject or brand or company. In a purely > > >semantic world where there are no web sites, just aggregators and > search > > >engines (assuming more intelligent ones than we have now), how will I > > >discover information about a new subject about which I know nothing? > > > > Good point, there will always be more information needed regarding a > > transaction online than the product details alone. For instance delivery > > details, company details, refund policy etc which may need to be > contained > > within a conventional site. However if the vision of the semantic web is > > fulfilled it should make it easy to discover information on a new > subject > > which I know nothing, by having the ability to pull in all related > > information for your needs, rather than you having to move from page to > page > > to find that information. > > > > Gloria... > > >I think the rise of the semantic web will coincide with the shift to > > hand-held devices as the primary data source > > > > I agree, I think the mobile has the potential to play a big part in the > > semantic web. It really goes back to Bryan's point that the Semantic web > > would be great for the type of 'I need to know now' information, and the > > mobile means this can happen anywhere, anytime. > > > > > > >I would argue that data already is the most important thing online, not > > websites. Web "sites" are the containers for our data. > > > > I agree to a point, obviously the most important thing online is to find > > answers to our questions, Products for our needs etc. However, is it not > > Information contained within sites that is the most important thing > > currently, rather than raw data which can be sliced and diced as we > require. > > Going back to my example earlier for instance, if I currently want to > find > > out who is the most reputable retailer of TV's I can search the web for > > 'information' and reviews. Maybe in the future I just query the web, get > the > > 'data' and turn it into information tailored for my needs. (sorry that > is a > > little vague, this is probably an indication in it's self that I am > wrong > > ;-) ) > > > > In general, my question regarding the death of the web page was trying > to > > stimulate discussion, and I am sure there will always be a need for it, > > after all not everything we do online revolves around retail. We > socialise, > > play, write and contribute in discussion etc. But I do wonder if the > > Semantic web becomes a reality, will companies invest less in > transactional > > websites and focus more upon standardising data so that it can be passed > to > > a semantic agent (application) which will do the work for them. > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 15, 2008 8:57 PM, Andrei Herasimchuk < > [EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > I got a message privately that made a point I might be confusing the > > > semantic web with something else. (Probably something closer to what > > > most designers know as "semantic markup.") It's a good point, so I > > > figure I'd write my response to the list in case I am. > > > > > > ---------- > > > > > > > I think you must be thinking of something else, the issues you > > > > raise have little/nothing to do with the foundation of the semantic > > > > web: OWL representations of the concepts your site's content is > > > > presenting to humans. > > > > > > > > > I'm probably conflating issues and making certain leaps too early in > > > what I wrote, but for the semantic web to occur in my understanding > > > of the term, the data representation has to work to do more than > > > simply present the data. It has to define he meaning of the data so > > > more can be done with it. > > > > > > From: http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm? > > > id=00048144-10D2-1C70-84A9809EC588EF21&page=2 > > > > > > "The Semantic Web is not a separate Web but an extension of the > > > current one, in which information is given well-defined meaning, > > > better enabling computers and people to work in cooperation. The > > > first steps in weaving the Semantic Web into the structure of the > > > existing Web are already under way. In the near future, these > > > developments will usher in significant new functionality as machines > > > become much better able to process and "understand" the data that > > > they merely display at present." > > > > > > To give "information well-defined meaning" you are effectively > > > tagging it, and to do so separate from the visual presentation can be > > > a problem if you also use the markup to define its meaning for the > > > purpose of letting the computer figure out what to do with it. > > > > > > For example: > > > > > > <h1>This is my title</h1> > > > > > > and > > > > > > <p class="mainheader">This is my title</p> > > > > > > Are two very different things. One is using the tag to define the > > > type of information and could be used by the computer to do all sorts > > > of behaviors with it, but requires all data of the type to be > > > visually the same. The other is using CSS to simply style it, and > > > dropping the class removes the style from the object itself. In order > > > for the semantic web to work, web markup should follow the first > > > method, not the second. (In my understanding.) And yet, to do complex > > > content presentation in a web browser, example #2 is actually easier > > > to control and allows the designer to make the content work better > > > for the specific design case in question. > > > > > > So what we end up with is something more like this to try and solve > > > both issues at the same time: > > > > > > <div class="article"> > > > <h1>This is my title</h1> > > > <p>This is my story ... </p> > > > </div> > > > > > > And then use > > > > > > div.article h1 { > > > style: properties go here; > > > } > > > > > > In CSS to declare H1 styles and presentation strictly confined to > > > content with article classes, while also giving the computer a means > > > to use H1 for something useful outside of the presentation because it > > > has special things it can do with content defined as H1. It's also > > > nice because we can now use things like JQuery to create interaction > > > using the class selectors in ways that I think model the intention of > > > the "semantic web," and to use JQuery effectively, it requires > > > cleaner markup that should be a "semantic" as possible to keep the > > > Javascript workable. > > > > > > This kind of "semantic markup" approach to markup works to a degree, > > > but it quickly gets messy once the content gets more complex and the > > > presentation more complex. When that mess occurs, one usually has to > > > toss out "semantic markup" to get the presentation and interaction > > > correct. And in tossing out semantic markup, one also is impacting > > > the semantic web. > > > > > > Again, in my understanding. I could easily be conflating these two > > > issues when that's not necessary. > > > > > > I'll admit I know little about the backend data model representation > > > that is being proposed for the semantic web or if there's going to be > > > some new means of translating that meaning into usable markup for > > > browser presentation (outside of all the XML tools that exist today), > > > but if it's anything like what is happening currently, it's a > > > hodgepodge and mashed up set of data mixing things semantically with > > > things that are not. And when that happens, getting the job done > > > wins, not getting the job done in a way that some future set of new > > > features might do some useful things. > > > > > > So yes, I'm probably conflating and getting very far ahead of the > > > issue and making all sorts of leaps that I passed over in my initial > > > email, along with leaps that aren't correct, if I'm not confusing the > > > issue in the first place. 8^) If I am, my apologies. > > > > > > -- > > > Andrei Herasimchuk > > > > > > Principal, Involution Studios > > > innovating the digital world > > > > > > e. 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