Hi,
I was following this thread with disbelief how most of the participants
don't understand which is the situation of open idea, open source
applications and open data in most countries round the world. And what
kind of support those people get when trying to bring message to
disbelievers. And how small is the group of actives really working. Yes,
there is much more "members", those who are actually end users taking
only benefits and nagging about missing features. And the fight against
commercial sector, how much you get back kicking with out real facts?
If membership fees are needed, if yearly reporting is needed and if you
have to organize real elections, we'll be in trouble. First of all we
have to establish a society which is eligible to have bookkeeping, bank
accounts, board and official meetings for its election etc. A lot of
bureaucracy which will be above the work pain already done by the few
volunteers (who are by themselves not satisfied currently to their own
efforts due lack of time).
If we don't establish a society (without that is impossible to collect
money) we should pay these fees to some other country! And then it would
be even more difficult to attract people to join. And who will get the
benefits of our money then? Of course in organization (OsGeo) those
members who represent larger groups(countries can reach their goals
easier and can direct the development and efforts to goals more powerful
than smaller group representatives or those who lack totally their
"man/woman". So none in this discussion has presented democratic way,
how to ensure equality, in this sense.
The timing of this discussion is perfect as it's holiday season and very
very few people in northern Europe is reading their emails.
Cheers,
Kari
On 06/24/2014 09:57 AM, Arnulf Christl wrote:
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On 06/23/2014 09:33 PM, b.j.kob...@utwente.nl wrote:
I am very dissapointed in this whole membership/fees discussion.
In reading the emails one does not see the international volunteer
community I would like to think OSGEO is (should be), but it rather
seems we are dealing with a US-based professional organisation,
mostly keen on not paying US taxes, and that is not what I want
OSGEO to become...
Hey Barend,
if it makes you feel any better - I can still see the volunteer driven
OSGeo and have no intention to drop out just because there are ideas
to move to a more consistent way of mapping members. I have been CRO
in two consecutive years and cannot see any advantage in sticking with
the non-system we have had so far. Instead, my hopes are that a fee
based membership can broaden the base we are one. It would make so
many things so much easier.
I also believe that we have grown to a size where we do not have to
fear a hostile takeover so that a lot of the self-referencing and
sustaining mechanisms we put in place to start with are not required
any more.
It would be a pity if others and especially existing OSGeo Charter
Members would feel negatively about the proposed suggestions so I beg
you all to voice your concerns now. And we should make sure that we
pass any changes of this format by the existing Charter Members and
make sure there is a fat majority of support for it. Otherwise we
would betray our principles which is exactly what we tried to prevent
with the existing system in place.
Have fun,
Arnulf
On 23-06-14 21:00, "Alex Mandel" <tech_...@wildintellect.com>
wrote:
On 06/19/2014 11:58 AM, Peter Baumann wrote:
Hi all,
good - and important! - discussion! Being Charter Member I am
somewhat concerned:
- I am surprised that the common democratic procedure of
election is perceived as creating "dissent".
Well it's somewhat conjecture without public confirmation that
someone walked away from OSGeo because they didn't get picked.
- yes, democracy is expensive, but generally it is considered
worth the effort. - is "lifelong membership" compatible with
community participation?
Nope and we've actually have discussed in the past what the rules
should be to weed out charter members who no longer particpate in
the community.
- "Recognised OSGeo Community Leaders" seem to get determined
in a very special, selective way (as compared to standard
election procedures).
Altogether, the criteria seem to make OSGeo a self-sustaining
group: insiders will remain insiders for a lifetime, outsiders
will...well, face a hurdle.
So the contrary of "open".
Just an idea: what about applying the OSGeo incubation
checklist to OSGeo itself to determine feasible procedures?
cheers, Peter
I think the discussion of membership fees is timely this year now
that we officially have our IRS 501c4 status. Why, well when we
were aiming for 501c3 that would have given us donations as tax
write offs for US members. Without that incentive to donate,
membership now seems like it might be the way to push individuals
to donate.
The amount should be researched quite a bit though, factoring in
how to reach maximum membership, with lowest overhead (collecting
and tracking membership will incur a cost).
Since we don't maintain a huge office, an in print journal, a
lobbyist or things like that we should be able to be much lower
that other professional societies. I agree it should be relative
to country of members, and there probably should be some sharing
in places where local chapters exist - or the local chapters
trust us to split the money back to them for things they need.
I'd suggest something in the $20-$30 US, students $5-$10. Maybe
with a sliding scale like PBS or Kickstarter, where if you
voluntarily pay more in a given year you get swag of some sort.
I'm trying to avoid the syndrome (I'm guilty of this) where one
pays for membership only in a year when it will get you a
discount worth more than the membership for the conference.
I agree with Arnulf that these decisions should probably go to
e-vote of all the current charter members, the boards
responsibility is to put forward a coherent plan for the vote.
Obviously if the board all hates the ideas it should stop there
for now.
Thanks, Alex
--
Kari Salovaara
Hanko, Finland
"Volunteers do not necessarily have the time; they just have the heart."
~ Elizabeth Andrew
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