In case we decide to migrate, I was wondering what kind of effort is required from a current mailing list (mailman2) user to switch to discourse if they want to keep using it as a mailing list. E.g., would they need to login first (potentially create a new account?) and then set anything from the discourse interface? I understand this is all new, so instructions may not be available yet, but I am just trying to understand what kind of burden the transition represents for a regular user.
Thanks, Anna On Tue, Jan 2, 2024 at 3:29 AM Regina Obe via Discuss < discuss@lists.osgeo.org> wrote: > > On Fri, Dec 29, 2023 at 09:52:35AM +1100, Bruce Bannerman via Discuss > > wrote: > > > Apart from these few emails telling me that a move to something > called > > > Discourse is happening, I have not seen any discussion on our lists > > > explaining the pros and cons of such a move. > > > I find this lack of community engagement on this issue to be > troubling. > > > This does not seem to be a very open source community way of making > such > > a > > > significant move. > > > > I feel the same and ask every OSGeo member with responsibility over > > infrastructure to use this mailing list more as this is the "place" > > with the most foundation members. > > > > First of all, this IS THE DISCUSSION. We've only moved one mailing list. > We are just encouraging people to try it out > first by allowing us to mirror their lists. No harm in that I see. Most > likely the lists that will move first are those with not that many people, > and who are dissatisfied with mail lists like some of the QGIS users groups. > > OpenStreetMap put together a nice intro, which I'm hoping we can pattern > our intro after: > > > https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/how-to-use-this-forum-for-new-users/314/9 > > which links to this discussion about pros and cons of mailing lists vs. > Discourse > > > https://meta.discourse.org/t/why-use-discourse-instead-of-a-email-mailing-list/54298 > > > My impetus for wanting to move is people asking for it, and complaining > about how mailing lists don't work > for people who want only casual involvement. > > Personally I hate mailing lists so they don't work for me. I only have > discuss in digest mode cause most of the topics don't interest me. > I only subscribe to a few mailing lists, but I do see with discourse, I > can at least peak into others and watch specific topics, and be selectively > emailed in only things that interest me or if someone mentions my name. > > We need to move either to Mailman3 or Discourse - end of story. Mailman2 > is dead and in looking at what we get with Mailman3, effort to move, > and all the people screaming over the years for discourse > https://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/ticket/2306 > , and seeing the success of discourse for projects such as OpenStreetMap > https://community.openstreetmap.org/ , Gnome, I'm leaning heavily toward > Discourse is the best solution > for most and most flexible to configure. > > * It will allow people who only want to interact via Email only to still > do so > > That is not to say there aren't issues with how it handles emails we need > to work out, which Sandro has made clear, but at least he's trying, so I > can't complain about him too much. > https://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/ticket/3072 > > * It will allow people to just post a question and only follow the > discussion about their question -- I know sounds selfish, but FOSS is about > scratching your own itch, and hanging around for longer when you decide > these people are cool and what they talk about is cool. > > * It has integration with ActivityPub, thus allowing discussions to flow > thru to channels like mastodon if wanted. We've been experimenting with > that and it's been pretty cool so far and I hope we can experiment with > more facets of discourse, like the language translation of forum questions > etc. > > > > The introduction of so many new/different communication channels > resulted in > > this fragmentation leaving people with this feeling of being excluded, > which is to > > be avoided. > > > > > Personally, what we have now has been working nicely for me for > close on > > > 20 years. > > > What different channels? We have matrix (which largely replaces IRC and > allows people on slack to interact with people on Matrix and IRC), > Discourse I am hoping to replace Mailman with to satisfy the mailing list > crowd of people and begin to satisfy the needs of others with no patience > for mailing lists, who relied on Nabble for their interaction (which nabble > is now dead). > (so this is about reducing fragmentation in my mind, not increasing it). > It's about bridging the gap between the old timers and newcomers (just as > Matrix did for IRC/Slack/etc) > > We are not forcing anyone's hands at this point. I expect we will live > with both Mailman2 and Discourse at least for the rest of the year, and > perhaps longer. > > > > Same for me. This is something new generations probably consider like a > reason > > to change (20 years, you oldies!) but I really think email is still the > most open and > > available and configuratble communication channel for everyone. I'm 100% > sure > > blind people can read and write email just fine, and I know first person > that I can > > read and write email even from a place where internet connection quality > is > > poor, and from machines which are not very powerful, and I think this is > very > > important if we want to be inclusive. > > > > > The lists have been very quiet for quite a while now, but that is a > > > community engagement issue. It is not something that technology will > > > magically fix. > > > > This is only partially true: I've seen a lot of people who are being very > > partecipative BUT do not interact on the mailing lists, even people > having > > responsibilty on the OSGeo infrastructure have been expressing a form of > dislike > > for mailing lists, for reasons we cannot pretend not to see. > > > and I'm one of those Infrastructure people who feel a bit dissatisfied > with mailing lists only 😊 > > > > I for one only very recently finally got back to manage my own email and > I'm > > seeing again the problems associated with doing so. This does not mean > the > > same problems do not exist with other systems, but we should try to > understand > > the needs of our user base and try to help with providing solutions. > > > > The above said: I'm also disappointed by not seeing partecipation in the > effort > > which is required to setup a new service (Discourse) from the very > people who > > loudly asked for it. Let's all please remember that infrastructures need > to be > > maintained so please don't ask what OSGeo can do for you ("I want > service X") > > but rather ask what you can do for OSGeo ("I want to help maintaining > service > > X"). > > > > Thank you for reading so far (short messages are also a kind of > technology some > > prefer to avoid long messages like mine ;) > > > > --strk; > > I was also hoping a bit more help in people getting involved, especially > those who said they wanted this. > To help write out the intro to newcomers and raise their hand "Yes, move > us". > I'm hoping it's just cause I sprung this over the holidays, that only a > few of those folks have shown interest. > But that said, I was a bit skeptical at first, but now reviewing all > discourse does I think it's a good idea, and I'm willing to see it thru. > > > Thanks, > Regina > > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss@lists.osgeo.org > https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >
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