Just joined the list and an extreme novice programmer and not entirely sure if I'm even responding correctly [am I suppose to reply-all vs reply...seems that way] but think that a major issue regarding upper level high school kids and university students is being completely lost here.
University students [undergrad and grad alike] who the lessons of software carpentry workshops target are essentially the same person except that university students probably at least in the case of science/eng students have more math knowledge and have probably at least been introduced to some programming concepts [not necessarily understood well or ever practiced]. Think that a pre-course to Software Carpentry workshops could be extremely useful to high schoolers and novice university researcher programmers alike. Only thought of this as the result of someone else mentioning that students forget everything learned when not subsequently being forced to use the things taught....definitely has happened to me. A workshop that uses one data set [image related stuff could be really useful for the large amount of data that is contained] and is completely cumulative, self-contained and allows for substantial subsequent programming/manipulation/visualization of data is the natural way to go for any beginner student. Find that beginner lessons around programming everywhere tend to forgo this and a multiple day workshop is perfect for this approach. Also, remember hearing talk about powerpoint/excel stuff. Integrating info into the workshop around how to use both the excel approach and programming stuff would be especially helpful for teaching students to switch and also for subsequent practicing of concepts taught in the workshop. In the case of high schoolers the fundamental thing to remember is to watch the math being used. Aside from teaching using images....my vote for teaching something like python and possibly even database stuff would be using a monte carlo simulation example. Ultimately, in my experience at the university level there are two disparate groups of students that go to programming related workshops. There are those that regularly program and those that don't or now need to due to research. A pre-course that also works for high schoolers could make significant inroads into the impact on learning/practice that software carpentry workshops can have. -S.G. On Wed, May 4, 2016 at 3:28 PM, Tracy Teal <[email protected]> wrote: > This is a great conversation. There are a lot of opportunities for > teaching and helping in instructing for coding for K-12. The current > Software Carpentry and Data Carpentry lessons aren't geared for high > schoolers, because they assume motivated learners - people who are aware of > the need to, or at least interested, in learning these skills to apply them > to problems they're already interested in. Most high schoolers don't have > this same experience or perspective yet. That motivation is partly why the > 'media first' approach is effective. It provides motivation by having an > interesting problem to work on. It's more the 'maker' approach; you'll > learn these skills because you're interested in solving the problem or > making a neat project. > > There are materials that have been developed for a broader audience. In > particular the Hour of Code (https://hourofcode.com/) is a global effort > that has this project-based approach and have a lot of different topics, at > different levels, and in many languages. These might be a great starting > place if you're volunteering to teach at the K-12 level. These lessons also > have the same hands-on approach that the Software and Data Carpentry > lessons do. > > The experience that you as Software and Data Carpentry instructors have > makes you terrific people to teach at the K-12 level, and it is really > important for generating enthusiasm for computational skills and > programming! It's just finding that right match of materials and students. > > We would love to hear about your experiences teaching at this level or in > other outreach efforts. Please let us know here on the Discuss list, or on > the (not yet often used) Data Carpentry discuss forum ( > http://discuss.datacarpentry.org/t/teaching-at-the-k-12-level-or-in-outreach-efforts/111) > Create an account or sign in with your github ID (I'm fixing the gmail > login). > > Best, > -Tracy > > > > > > On Wed, May 4, 2016 at 11:14 AM, Ted Hart <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I think what high school students will get out of SWC probably varies >> widely by the level of the class or school. My intuition is that there's >> probably much more heterogeneity at the high school level in terms of >> access to resources, background etc... than you'd find at the graduate >> school level. I've actually thought that a SWC workshop would be well >> received where my wife teaches. However it's probably an outlier school, a >> privateschool in silicon valley mostly attended by the children of tech >> execs and VC's. I know they regularly use github for projects (Like the >> school robotics team: https://github.com/RoboticsTeam4904) and each >> student has to complete a long term thesis type work that is often an app >> or build their own drones and program them. They build websites and host >> them on github as well for humanities projects. >> >> The pitfall of teaching to high school students seems to be how best to >> inspire interest (as Greg mentioned). I would guess there's a strong >> bifurcation in those who know and care about programming and those who >> don't. Whereas grad students are all doing similar kinds of work and those >> who lack programming skills can see a real benefit to their productivity, I >> think the same could not be said of high school students. Those who are >> really interested have probably taught themselves and are really into >> programming for their own reasons, and those who aren't have no motivation >> to learn. That means a workshop would just be preaching to an already well >> educated choir. The real challenge would be how to inspire those who don't >> take joy in programming that these are useful skills. Also the types of >> schools that would be most receptive / able to host a workshop (like Nueva >> where all the kids are given brand new laptops ever school year) are likely >> to be those who might be in the least need (Not to open up a pandora's box >> of class and school districts.) >> >> I think to work the instructors would have to work closely with the STEM >> or CS teachers at a school to tailor the workshop to the specific needs and >> skill levels. If people would be willing to take that time, I think it >> would be really positive. >> >> >> Ted >> >> On Wed, May 4, 2016 at 9:20 AM Greg Wilson < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> On 2016-05-04 12:05 PM, John Corless wrote: >>> >>> I think this is a very interesting question that I have considered. I >>> helped at a workshop at a local university and decided to bring my 16 >>> year old daughter. She is an excellent science minded student, and >>> more or less kept up during the workshop (with extra support from >>> Dad!). But in the end I am not sure she got much from the experience. >>> I am pretty certain that she has forgotten shell, git, and R commands >>> and syntax since she hasn't used them since. For her, normal high >>> school computer use is limited to writing papers with word processors. >>> My hope was that she would at least know that there is such a thing as >>> a command line and scripts of programming languages that can be used >>> to analyze data. Maybe that will help her when she faces more serious >>> computer work later in college and beyond. So my hope was simply that >>> a little familiarity might breed less discomfort later in her life. >>> >>> >>> +1 to this - in order for lessons to stick, learners have to be able to >>> do something with the knowledge that they actually want to do, and most >>> high schoolers don't have a lot of legacy data to reformat or analyze. >>> This is one of the reasons why the "media first" approach pioneered by >>> Guzdial and Ericson is so effective: pretty much everybody has a use for >>> fiddling with pictures. (I'm still frequently tempted to re-do our intro >>> Python lesson around image manipulation, but that's a topic for another >>> day...) >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Greg >>> >>> -- >>> Dr Greg Wilson >>> Director of Instructor Training >>> Software Carpentry Foundation >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Discuss mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> >>> http://lists.software-carpentry.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.software-carpentry.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Discuss mailing list >> [email protected] >> >> http://lists.software-carpentry.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.software-carpentry.org >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.software-carpentry.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.software-carpentry.org >
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