I don't think there was a need to be nasty, Shaun. Let me
try this again, as it seems that my point was either misunderstood or
there is a case of over reacting.
I did not discount or discredit your experience. I know, for a
fact, of several similar ones to yours, and I believe I even opened my
last message by saying that Apple had a long way to go. I'm sorry,
but your statement was presented as a blanket one in which you were
seeming to assertthat your experiences demonstrated how everyone
else's happens to be. Again, I have been hearing several positive
stories that run contrary to what you are presenting. That was my
simple point. Basically, it's like saying that because you owned a
Ford and had nothing but bad experiences with your dealer and Ford HQ
that this is the same for the rest of the car world.
Again, I stress once more that Apple needs to make a direct and
concerted effort to get their staff up to date with working knowledge
of VO and they need, to at least, encourage the Apple Stores around
the world to make a similar effort with their staff. This is a fact.
At the same time, as I said before, it appears that there are some
places this is being addressed. It's too bad that you have not
witnessed what I have in my store when I walked in with my Mac Book in
the spring and two of the guys knew exactly how to start VoiceOver and
how to use it well enough to impress me, I made it a point to
compliment them and the manager.
Take Care
John Panarese
On Nov 9, 2007, at 1:10 PM, VaShaun Jones wrote:
Yes Sir, sorry Sir, Apple is the best and can do no wrong Sir. In
the three Georgia Apple stores I can assure you that VO is the last
thing they can help with. They can tell me more about Windows than
they can tell me about VO. I can say what I want and it is not a
blanketed statement, it is my real life experience. They laid out
the red carpet when I brought my machines, but when you need VO help
you are left to the manual. I am glad you have two people that can
help you in your respective country/state, however we don't. It is a
shame that a person who says anything bad about Apple they already
know that the list will bash them. We spend more time trying to
people not to talk bad about Apple than we do helping others.
On Nov 9, 2007, at 12:51 PM, John Panarese wrote:
Actually, I do have to jump in here, as you are generalizing a
bit too much. Without a doubt, Apple needs to get their people up
to speed in a lot of areas in regard to VoiceOver, but I have heard
of several people who have, indeed, gotten tech support from Apple
tech support and Apple Care for VO questions. In addition, I
personally know of Apple Stores that are actively seeking training
for their staff on VoiceOver. My local store, in fact, has two
people who can use VO and answer questions. Not the norm, I know,
but please do not make blanket statements that lack complete
accuracy.
Take Care
John Panarese
On Nov 9, 2007, at 8:47 AM, VaShaun Jones wrote:
Sorry, but who can you call for VO help? Surely not Apple. I think
most of you guys are stuck in your ways and will not admit that
you can't go to Apple to help with VO concerns. Most of the people
who use Mac on this list have unsubscribed because of the same
attitude.
On Nov 9, 2007, at 8:15 AM, David Poehlman wrote:
give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day, teach him to fish....
On Nov 8, 2007, at 9:38 PM, VaShaun Jones wrote:
Sorry, but since you have singled yourself out to specifically
answer, what exactly are you answering? It is common curtasy to
answer e-mails. What if they stop answering phone calls too? If
you have a product you should support it. As far as how long it
takes, who cares how long it takes? You have always carried your
responses in a do it yourself/read the help/ don't you already
know/ duhh, stupid short answer kinda way. I have seen on
numerous occasions a new switcher or potential switcher ask a
question and we will break our necks to tell them how great the
Mac is, but when someone ask a simple question that you know the
answer to, you tell them it is obvious. You can't call Apple and
get tech help with VO nor can you e-mail them. They have the same
views as most of the people on this list and that is that it is
in a manual, in help or on the net so go find it. If someone
talks bad about Apple you all get mad and tell them to creteec
there message to put the Mac and VO in the best light possible
instead of letting them have there own view. I research for a
living and on my free time I use my Mac and often times turn to
you guys for a quick answer. I turn to you because you have
already done the research. I turn to you because I need your help
and you talk down to people who ask a question. My question to
both David and Sheryl in particular, is why?
On Nov 8, 2007, at 9:06 PM, David Poehlman wrote:
I'm answering this one. How much time is it taking, how much
time does it take to research a problem, write up the solution,.
I don't respond to emails when the solution to the issue is
evident.
On Nov 8, 2007, at 8:02 PM, VaShaun Jones wrote:
There is no excuse for not answering e-mails no matter the
company or status, bug fixes or not. If you submit a e-mail that
is valid, understandable and related to a issue, problem or
praise. The proper thing at a minimum is to respond. Trust me
that accessibility e-mail address is not the forum that the
developers are reading. Not responding to e-mails is ridiculous
On Nov 8, 2007, at 5:37 PM, David Poehlman wrote:
If you were sitting in there seat and had a choice of
responding to messages all day or fixing bugs, what would you do?
On Nov 8, 2007, at 5:16 PM, Dan Keys wrote:
Hello Rich and list,
I'd like to make an observation regarding my experiences with
Apple's Accessibility Group.
Never in the numerous times that I've written to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
have I ever got a responce. It would be better for someone to
respond to email, than to never respond. I know that a few
people have received replies from Apple's Accessibility group,
but I sure never have. It kind of gives the appearance that
they don't want anything to do with the customers who use
Apple's products, in particular, VoiceOver or any other
accessibility applications.
On Nov 8, 2007, at 1:53 PM, Rich Caloggero wrote:
I want to file a bug / suggestion with Apple, specifically
related to
Safari, VoiceOver, and Webkit. Should I simply send eMail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED], or should I goto the webkit.org site
and use their
bug tracking system?
I guess what I'm really asking is: which software is
controling the behavior
I see with respect to VoiceOver and the web (Safari, Webkit,
or VoiceOver)?
I assume that there is no simple answer to this question, and
that to some
extent all three are involved.
A related question: if I send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED],
are there
guidelines or a certain form the message must follow, aside
from the usual:
include specific version numbers of all components, provide
test cases, be
clear about what the problem is, and provide clear steps to
reproduce?
Thanx much in advance.
-- Rich
