Well, he wrote it out but let me see if I can make this less cluttered. 1) to delete a character, you must move to its right 2) to insert before a character, you must be to its left. so, as you move right, you are to the right of the last character you heard, if you move left, you are to the left of the last character you heard. It gets a bit more complex with words and lines, but follows the same basic principle.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Howell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use of Mac OS X by theblind" <discuss@macvisionaries.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 6:16 PM Subject: Re: Really annoying issue with editing in text boxes. David, your correct, but what we need to explain is that in fact this is because VO is different than windows-based screen readers. I agree this is a bit tricky to get used to initially, but you will get the hang of it. I don't know how to explain this so it makes sense, but if you come up to a word, you hear the first letter, if you back up with the left arrow, you will be just to the right of the character. You will hear it seemingly speak double characters, but it's how the cursor moves and not a VO bug. Someone with much greater literary skills can probably make this easier to understand, but trust me, it's something you get used to and it'll make sense. On Nov 25, 2008, at 5:19 PM, David Poehlman wrote: > this is a user issue. It is not a bug. My suggestion is practice. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Christopher Gilland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <discuss@macvisionaries.com> > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 5:09 PM > Subject: Fw: Really annoying issue with editing in text boxes. > > > I sent this to Apple Accessibility. > > Do any of yall have any thoughts? > > Chris. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Christopher Gilland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 5:04 PM > Subject: Really annoying issue with editing in text boxes. > > >> I am a voiceover user using Leopard 10.5.5. >> >> I have noticed this issue as far back as the first release of Tiger. >> >> Basically, it's gonna be hard for me to type out what is happening, >> being >> this is more an auditory based thing, so try to stick with me on >> this. I >> really hope I don't confuse you all. >> >> OK, I have a document up, o... let's just say, in, o? I dunno. >> Text Edit, >> we'll just say for sakes being. >> >> OK, I have typed the following line of text in a new, blank text >> document. >> Please pay extremely close attention to how I've typed this both >> gramatically, and also spelling: >> >> The colors of tHe flag r red. white. and blUe? >> >> Boy, this sentence is r'r'r'really! messed up! >> >> Let's edit it. >> >> OK, I go to the beginning of that line with command+left arrow. >> >> I hear the word, The. >> >> OK, so now I move word by word, with option right arrow. >> >> The >> colors >> of >> tHe >> >> Whoops? We gotta booboo here. OK, so, I hit right arrow. >> >> I hear space. UM? OK? >> >> I hit left arrow. I hear again: Space. What in the heck? >> >> I hit left arrow again. I hear E. aa, K. now we're getting >> there. I >> left arrow again. I hear cap H. There we go. I need to delete >> this and >> put a lower case h, instead of capital. So I hit the delete key, >> then >> type lower case h. >> >> Now, if I read the current line with vo+L, I hear: >> >> hhe colors of tHe flag r red. white. and blUe? >> >> What? in the world? Why did it do? that! >> >> I called a friend for help, and what he told me is the following. >> I've >> pasted his response below: >> >> >> Wo wo wol Chris! Hold on here. Wol! Ur'r'r'rk? >> >> Um? You're kind a failing to see something here: You're thinking >> Windows >> again. Stop doing that. Voiceover, thank God, doesn't work like >> JAWS. >> You can't edit that way. The thing is, Chris, as you left and right >> arrow, you know how in Windows, your insertion point is gonna be >> right on >> the actual character that it speaks? Well, un? fortunately, in >> Voiceover, >> it's not quite that simple. In VO, it is actually reading to you the >> character that your insertion point passes over, rather than the way >> Windows does it, with jfw, by reading the character you're sitting >> on. >> >> This is why when you hit the left arrow then delete, it did what it >> did. >> >> Let's say, Chris, that you type the word Hello, but instead of h, >> e, l, l, >> o, you did: h, e, k, k, o. Hekko? What the hell kind a word is >> that! >> >> So, you wanna get rid of those two k's, and replace them with l's. >> Right? >> OK, What I'd! do, Chris, is I would option right arrow, until I hear >> Hekko. Now remember, Chris, you're not on the word Hekko. Because >> you >> were working to the right in the document, where are you really? >> cor, >> rect! You're to the right! of the word hekko. That is definitely >> not >> where we wanna be, is it? So hit option left arrow one time. >> You'll hear >> again: Hekko. Can you explain to me Chris, why that is? The >> reason's, >> because now, you moved to the left! of the word Hekko. See... >> you're not >> on the word actually. That's where you're getting confused. On the >> Mac, >> unlike in Windows, there is! no such thing, as being quote, >> unquote, on! a >> character/word. You have to be on either trailing side of it, and >> depending on whether you've done left arrow, or right arrow, will >> determine which side you're on. OK, so now. We're to the left of >> the >> word Hekko. hit you're right arrow. You'll hear cap H. however, >> watch >> this. read your current character with vo+C. Did you see what it >> did? It >> said E. It didn't say H did it. ok, now hit left arrow. What did >> you >> hear? You heard E again didn't you. Now, hit vo C. Notice it >> said H? >> See? it's telling you what your cursor passed over! not! what it's >> actually on. so hit right arrow once. You heard E. Actually >> though, it >> passed the letter e, and since you're working to the right, it now is >> sitting on the right side of the letter E. So I betcha, if you now >> hit vo >> C, it'll say K. See that? You're now actually sitting on the first >> letter K in Hekko. So, hit your delete key twice. now, type ll. >> >> Now read the current line with vo+L. >> >> Hello >> >> See? Mission accomplished! >> >> >> End of response from my friend. >> >> >> God! blessid! That confused me. I don't totally get what he's >> saying >> about it passing over things etc. That's driving me to drinking, >> as I >> can't hardly edit a document this way. >> >> Is there any way to think about this differently, or at least, >> maybe a way >> in a future update, maybe under navigation in the vo utility, yall >> could >> make a checkbox, to make it behave more like Windows and speak what >> it's >> actually under instead of what it passes? God. I'm sure I'm not the >> first newly migrating user from Windows to a Mac, who's ran into >> this. I >> dono if it's a bug, that yall didn't really fix, as most people don't >> really seem to care, they just deal with it, or if you all >> purposefully >> made it this way, but no offense. In all do respect though guys, >> this! is >> outstandingly disgusting! >> >> Ewww! Yoyk! You can imagine for people who have to work in other >> languages that don't use the standard lattin based alphebet, you can >> imagine for someone like that, how Godly hard this would be to edit. >> >> Say in Arabic, you're wanting to type Allah. >> >> Yes, you could do: A, l, l, A, h. but what if you're really typing >> arabic. >> >> Alif, lam, lam, heh. >> >> now that is Not! gonna read with vo if you use the actual Arabic >> letters, >> so, editting that? being you don't know what you're literally, on, >> as it's >> passing things, not reporting what you're sitting on? Now you got >> yourself a double! challenge. Trying first to figure out what >> characters >> you got, and B, figuring out where your cursor really truely is >> sitting, >> not what it's passed over. >> >> just, ya know: >> >> Be aware of this. It is something that I really think you all may >> wanna >> consider looking into as it's so confusing to me, it's almost >> making me >> scared of Leopard, and really wanna use it less and less. It just >> cfeels >> so awquard! Any suggestions? >> >> Chris. > > > > > Scott Howell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
