In the future any donations I make are to assimilated by the volunteer maintainer of the domain of that item. The items I bring in are not JUNK but rather raw materials to be used and/or blown up.
https://synhak.org/wiki/Maintainers On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 9:32 PM, Torrie Fischer <tdfisc...@hackerbots.net>wrote: > On Friday, December 06, 2013 20:33:52 Justin Herman wrote: > > First want to say that everyone I have ever met at synhak is cool. > > > > This is my POV so please take the little it is worth. > > > > > > I would like to make it clear that I never intended to cause someone to > be > > upset by donating equipment. BUT I did donate it to SynHak not an > > individual. I hope that everyone can understand the difference. > > You did. It went into SYNHAK's pile of hackable equipment. In the future, > please let discuss@ know in advance and put some other sign on them if you > don't want donations to be hacked, but have a specific purpose in mind. If > no > specific purpose is in mind, please ask discuss@ to see what people would > want > to do with them. Otherwise, that entire junk pile is fair game to all > members > of the hacker community, excluding those who have been banned from > participating. > > > > > If the items were deemed limbo property when given, they are NOT a > > charitable gift. I do feel that synhak should help others with equipment > > either by releasing it to individuals (selling and/or giving), Loaning > > (under the membership loan a tool plan), or retaining it for a fixed > > community resource (like the welder or lathe or 3d Printer) > > While the junk pile /is/ free for anyone to take things from, they should > only > be taken out of the junk pile for the purpose of making. If someone takes > it > and uses it wholesale for their personal gain, thats not excellent. If > someone > wants to make or learn with what they see, they should be free to do so. > That > is SYNHAK's purpose. I'd consider that a charitable gift since it furthers > SYNHAK's mission of providing to the general public and environment to > "provide an environment for people to educate, create, and share amongst > themselves and others within the domains of technology, art and science." > > > > > When I donate items to synhak I donate them to strengthen the hackerspace > > community. I know that others (like Omar and others) will take the > precious > > time to sift through it and determine a good communal use. This communal > > use may support others to come to the space work on projects and provide > > their support. Together we all support each other. > > Just so its clear, the hackerspace community is a lot more than the 16 > members > who pay dues. The discuss list has over 100 subscribers, and our meetings > regularly get 25+ people showing up. > > > > > I see no reason that if a certain widget/part/item would help you in a > > personal project why synhak (as a voting membership) would not grant that > > property to be yours forever. BUT I don't assume anything (except > > consumables and items deemed JUNK) as to mine when I visit the space. I > > have access to them, can use them (if trained) but I don't own them. > > There is a difference between property being dropped off in the junk pile > and > being directly integrated into the infrastructure of the hackerspace. > > > > > When I loan items to synhak (large fans and future items) I entrust the > > community to be excellent and treat them like they would other more > > expensive items (powertools, 3d printer, lathe) > > > > I hope everyone understands the place I am coming from even if you don't > > see it the same way. > > I'm not sure you and I share the same definitions, so please tell me if I'm > misunderstanding: > > "Hackerspace community", n - The people who use SYNHAK to be creative, > whether > it is through mailing list discussions, IRC conversations, experimenting > with > homebrewing, attending a class, or sharing ideas at a meeting. Able to > exercise do-ocracy within the bounds of "Be Excellent to Each Other". Don't > even need to be citizens of Earth, or biological constructs. > > "SYNHAK member", n - A subset of the above that has gone through the > membership process. Doesn't get any special rights beyond being permitted > to > participate in our governance process through consensus, acceptance of new > members to the governance process, holding office, key access, and minimal > storage. > > "Donating to SYNHAK", v - Giving property to SYNHAK that further enables > the > organization's mission to provide an environment for people to educate, > create, and share amongst themselves and others within the domains of > technology, art, and science. > > "Tax deductable donation", n - A donation to SYNHAK that gets a reciept in > return, and should be handled through the Treasurer. > > > > > /end rant > > > > Much Love > > > > Justin > > > > On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 7:57 PM, Torrie Fischer > <tdfisc...@hackerbots.net>wrote: > > > On Friday, December 06, 2013 15:43:22 Omar Rassi wrote: > > > > Philip, > > > > > > > > First, you are right about the confusion about the junk pile and > > > > > > donations > > > > > > > pile. I discussed this with a Champion and we are clarifying this > VERY > > > > > > soon > > > > > > > because it is very important to avoid this kind of confusion. > Second, to > > > > dispel any feeling that anyone was worried about you, that is false, > I > > > > > > put > > > > > > > it back in the storage room because that is our storage room for > member > > > > projects and synhak property. The recent donations had not gone their > > > > because they had not been sorted yet. > > > > > > Except it isn't SYNHAK property. It is stuff that *nobody* wants to do > > > anything with. If someone claims something from the donation pile, then > > > they > > > are free to do whatever they want with it, but it needs to leave that > > > area. If > > > their next step is to fit it into SYNHAK's infrastructure, then it > remains > > > SYNHAK's. > > > > > > If their next step is to make something, then I feel that they're free > to > > > claim it as their own, *regardless of membership status*. Seriously, > you > > > don't > > > need to be a member to stop in one day of the year and happen to see > the > > > exact > > > hardware that you need to finish your project. > > > > > > We are an infrastructure provider for creative people. Part of that > > > infrastructure is having a physical location for people to drop off > unused > > > equipment and others to use it to continue to create. > > > > > > We are not an infrastructure provider for members of SYNHAK. Members of > > > SYNHAK > > > support the hackerspace. They are not the hackerspace. They provide the > > > funds > > > to keep the lights on and have the right to shape the space through > direct > > > involvement, as opposed to trying to convince someone who can to do it > for > > > them. > > > > > > > I was not able to get to the rest of the computing equipment until > the > > > > festivities were over and I have done so, though the desktops have > not > > > > > > yet > > > > > > > been looked at. I have no issues with helping anyone with their > computer > > > > equipment and answering questions and I am more than happy to help > you > > > > > > with > > > > > > > your HP as I'm an experience repair technician however, that > particular > > > > > > HP > > > > > > > that was in the donation pile is of great use to synhak and should > not > > > > > > have > > > > > > > been left at the junk pile (the differentiation between junk and > > > > > > donations > > > > > > > will be rectified). > > > > > > > > Of the donation of those computer equipment, I have already > identified > > > > > > some > > > > > > > things that going right back to the junk pile as it is just too old > to > > > > be > > > > of use to synhak, newer equipment may be put to use as a computer, > for a > > > > project or resold to maintain our operating funds. I expect that this > > > > > > will > > > > > > > be an important topic of discussion this coming meeting, fleshing > out a > > > > clear and precise donation/scrapping procedure (I hate the word > policy). > > > > > > I > > > > > > > was a manager for a thrift store for a time so I'll see about > drafting a > > > > generic procedure for the membership to modify as we choose. > > > > > > > > The basic foundation of all donations to Synhak is that it belongs to > > > > Synhak until we (by we, I mean any member, it doesn't have to be me, > > > > > > I.E. A > > > > > > No. No, no, no, no. Please see above. The stuff in the junk pile is > *not* > > > automatically SYNHAK's property! Just because it shows up doesn't mean > it > > > is > > > instantly part of our infrastructure. This is a very dangerous idea, > as it > > > restricts access to our resources to only people who pay their dues and > > > have > > > jumped through the hoops to become a full member. Again, infrastructure > > > provider. Not members-only workshop. > > > > > > > member appropriated something from the recent donations for his own > > > > > > project > > > > > > > before I got a chance to look at it and therefore it is not included > in > > > > > > my > > > > > > > recent report) can determine their future purpose, we are not a > > > > recycling > > > > facility for e-waste, but will work with members, the community, and > > > > > > local > > > > > > > recycling centers to ensure all donations get maximum use/reuse. The > > > > general public may then use recent donations during our open hours > once > > > > > > our > > > > > > > members have had enough time to figure out what these donations can > be > > > > > > used > > > > > > > for, ALL of the equipment seen at synhak, computers, monitors, > mixers, > > > > soldering tools, welders, saws, power tools, projector, etc. were > > > > donated > > > > and then repaired/refurbished and then set up for public use. I > promise > > > > that everyone will get a chance to use donations including the > general > > > > public but we have to think about our members and our operating costs > > > > > > first. > > > > > > That is not the protocol. If it is, please correct me so it can get > > > changed > > > through the proper channel of a proposal. > > > > > > > I sincerely apologize for the confusion this has caused and I feel > > > > > > horrible > > > > > > > for the disappointment. I am working as quickly as I can to sort the > > > > equipment so they can be put to good use. > > > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 2:54 PM, Philip P. Patnode < > ppatn...@gmail.com > > > > > > > >wrote: > > > > > *Suggestions for consideration by SYNHAK members -* > > > > > > > > > > *To avoid confusion, disappointment, and wasting time on projects > that > > > > > will never happen, I suggest that the JUNK PILE (clearly marked > with a > > > > > sign, usage policy established) be separated from the RECENT > DONATIONS > > > > > PILE > > > > > (not marked, no policy) and I suggest **a formal SH policy be > > > > > > established > > > > > > > > for donations.* > > > > > > > > > > *In my opinion, two things need to happen at SYNHAK regarding > future > > > > > donations.* > > > > > > > > > > *One*, *the SH policy* on all donations - from any source, of any > kind > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > needs to be clearly stated and communicated to all members and > > > > > non-members, > > > > > in print or by email or as added text on the SH webpage or all > three. > > > > > > > > > > *Two*,* the physical location* at SH for recent hardware donations > > > > > > needs > > > > > > > > to be clearly marked with a sign/appropriate comments. For > example, > > > > > "Don't > > > > > Take" or "Not Available" or "Death by Laser" or "To Be Evaluated" > > > > > > might be > > > > > > > > used to convey the message. > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > ------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Here is the back story behind the suggestions. My apologies for > the > > > > > length and details necessary to tell the story. > > > > > > > > > > At about 7.15pm last night, because of the delay over the turkey > > > > > > cooking > > > > > > > > experiment, I spent some time taking a casual look at the contents > of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > hardware junk pile near the entrance to the main room. Looked at > and > > > > > > dug > > > > > > > > through lots of boxes and shelves full of stuff, all under a sign > > > > > indicating that all of it was in the correct place - the Junk Pile. > > > > > > > > > > Much to my surprise, I found a HP g7 series laptop that was very > > > > > > similar > > > > > > > > to the HP g7-1019wm that I had brought with me to SH last night, in > > > > > the > > > > > hope of finding someone to help me diagnose/identify the problems > and > > > > > guide > > > > > me through the repair process. The HP I brought is a personal > laptop > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > not an item I plan to sell on eBay or Craigslist. It has a bad > > > > > cooling > > > > > fan > > > > > (does not rotate - ever), a glitchy on/off switch, and two keys > > > > > > damaged - > > > > > > > > the K and the L, and maybe other problems. > > > > > > > > > > A long-time full member of SH (not to be named) stopped by to chat > and > > > > > discuss the situation with me. During the conversation, he made it > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > clear that I could "claim" the donated item I found in the junk > pile > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > use parts from it to fix my laptop. He was aware that I am not a > > > > > sponsored > > > > > member of SH, only a recent interested person who likes the > concept of > > > > > > SH > > > > > > > > and has made an effort to swim with the rolling tide. As the > turkey > > > > > frying > > > > > situation was still developing out on the loading deck, I spent the > > > > > > next > > > > > > > > 45 > > > > > minutes doing some online research about the specs for both HP > laptops > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > going through the HP support forums to read the comments about > similar > > > > > problems. I was on page two of my notes when a dark cloud appeared > on > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > horizon. > > > > > > > > > > My joy of finding a possible solution to my laptop problem turned > to > > > > > serious disappointment and frustration when another long-time full > > > > > > member > > > > > > > > of SH (again, not to be named) approached and summarily declared > that > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > donated item was not available to me or anyone else, but would be > > > > > > retained > > > > > > > > by SH to be diagnosed and possibly repaired and used by SH or sold > for > > > > > cash. There was no room allowed for any further discussion about > the > > > > > donated laptop. Do'ocracy in action? > > > > > > > > > > As a non-member, with no power, no influence, no ace-in-the-hole, > and > > > > > definitely no say about anything regarding anything at SH, I tried > to > > > > > minimize my comments and watched as the member picked up the laptop > > > > > off > > > > > the > > > > > work area where I had it and proceeded to disassemble it on another > > > > > > bench, > > > > > > > > check out a few items, and put it back together again. He then > moved > > > > > > to a > > > > > > > > back room, out of sight and out of reach, as if he was concerned > that > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > would find a way back to the junk pile, or worse, out to someone's > car > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > disappear forever. The series of actions by the member almost > > > > > > appeared > > > > > > > > as > > > > > if he was worried I would run off with the donated HP moment he > turned > > > > > > his > > > > > > > > back on it, although I might be entirely in error about his > thoughts > > > > > on > > > > > the > > > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > The names of the SH members who were involved are not essential to > the > > > > > issue and are not the basis for the suggestions. Personalities > play > > > > > > no > > > > > > > > part in my suggestion to take action on the matter of donations to > SH. > > > > > > > > > > Only turkey feathers should be ruffled, as I am not making this an > > > > > > issue > > > > > > > > about any particular member. > > > > > > > > > > On a final note, I would consider buying the donated HP g7 series > > > > > > laptop > > > > > > > > from SH at a reasonable price to use for parts or repair, if it is > > > > > available now or becomes available in the near future. > > > > > > > > > > In the meantime, I will avoid even looking at anything within 10ft > of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > combo donations/junk pile. I don't want to get my hope up and then > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > it > > > > > dashed again. > > > > > > > > > > Philip > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Discuss mailing list > > > > > Discuss@synhak.org > > > > > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Discuss mailing list > > > Discuss@synhak.org > > > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss@synhak.org > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >
_______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
