TWIMC at SH, Since I have been isolated on my private island for the past week or so, I may have missed some details.
If anybody is interested, here is my position and thoughts on several of the points under discussion about membership, dues, and key access. dues * regular rate of $35 per month for anybody over age 18 * discount rate for families - $35 per month for first adult, plus $15 per month for each additional person over age 18, plus $5 per month for kids under age 18 * discount rate for high school and college students - $15 per month * discount of 10% off the monthly amount for pre-payment of 3 or more months for any membership, paid in advance What happened to the long-discussed "senior discount"? I brought up the issue way back in Oct or Nov at one of the first weekly meetings I ever attended, but no definitive action has ever been taken. *I suggest that a senior discount be established at the rate of $25 per month. * *membership* * should be open to all, with exceptions, subject to approval by the existing membership * should be denied to illegal immigrants, convicted felons, known drug users, and anybody on the Ohio/any other state sex offenders list * should be suspended for members who have not paid their dues after 30days and rescinded permanently if the dues are not paid after 90days. *key access* * should be available to all active members (over age 18) in good standing, on written request and after a discussion of the request at a weekly meeting, with an open vote or consensus by members present (unanimous vote required) * should be available to one or both of the parents/guardians of an active member under age 18 in good standing - the member can have the key, but can only use it when accompanied by their parent or guardian * should be immediately rescinded and the key recovered from any member who fails to lock the building (front door and/or garage door) on exit, if they are the person responsible for closing the space * should be immediately rescinded and the key recovered from any member who shares the key with anybody else not authorized to have key access ------------------------------- I am in full agreement with the comment by Andrew about minors and their parents/guardians while at the building. A minor should never, ever be left alone in any area of the space (except the bathroom), but must be under constant supervision by the parent or guardian or a member (as chosen or approved by the parent or guardian). Members present should not be expected or encouraged to "babysit" the younger members while the parent is outside smoking/chatting/stargazing or engaged in their own project, ignoring the kid. For example, if Robert (age 7) would like to have a 2x4 sawed in half on the chop saw, I would be happy to do it for him, subject to approval by Rob or Jenny. If Robert wants to help paint a wall, I would be happy to have him on the painting team while Rob or Jenny is off doing something else. Feel free to reply or comment in person. I am always open to suggestions and constructive criticism. Philip On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 10:39 PM, a l <leit...@gmail.com> wrote: > No one has any input on my suggestions? > > Regards, > Andrew L > On Apr 16, 2014 6:52 PM, "a l" <leit...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> This seems like two unrelated proposals: Family dues discounts and Key >> access to minors. Perhaps I just misinterpreted formatting. >> >> >> I couldn't organize my words to reflect my thoughts at the time, but the >> idea of 'grandfathering' in a key that hasn't even been approved yet rubs >> me the wrong way. I agree that changing the rules after the fact is >> unexcellent and as they are written now there are no restrictions on keys >> beyond being a member of good standing who has demonstrated >> trustworthiness. The discussion surrounding key holders was brought up due >> to concerns(that have largely been satisfied). This isn't about >> grandfathering. We are making an exception. >> Related to approving keys for one minor before instituting an age >> requirement with no cause. This suggest one of two scenarios: 1) we don't >> trust minors and their guardians to act responsibly but no one wants to be >> the one to say no. 2)Somehow we trust this minor and guardians and believe >> that no one else could ever be as responsible as they are. That members who >> helped start SynHak and their children(should their child want to pursue >> membership and keys) could never be as responsible. >> Either every minor can be trusted with a key or none can and we have >> to force the guardians to go through the appropriate processes. We trust >> minors enough to give them full membership status empowering them to vote >> on how to spend money and who the board and officers are. They are >> even(currently) eligible to run for these positions themselves. So long as >> they have proven they can fulfill the requirements as outlined in the >> current rules why should they not be granted a key? >> >> >> I'm not against responsible people having keys. I just want uniform >> rules. To that end I have some suggestions for this discussion. >> All minors may be assigned keys >> Legal guardians must be in the same room as them while operating >> power tools, heated tools, or other hazardous tools. >> 0 Tolerance for both the minor and the guardian in following >> this rule. >> Consult with insurance: Minors over the age of 14/16 only require a >> relative over 25/30? >> >> While I am entirely against the prospect of allowing one minor to have a >> key and bar others just because their proposal came up first in the >> minutes. I want to make rules that are logical. We aren't creating rules >> for just one person. Many of us have expressed interest in outreach to >> young hackers and I don't want a feeling of second class membership to >> stand in the way of their hacking. >> >> regards, >> Andrew L >> >> >> On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 4:17 PM, Torrie Fischer <tdfisc...@hackerbots.net >> > wrote: >> >>> As promised, here's the full proposal we decided on last night: >>> >>> ----8<---- >>> Membership dues will have the following discount structure: >>> >>> * Regular rate for the first adult 18 earth years of age and older >>> * A minimum of $15/mo for each additional adult 18 earth years of age and >>> older >>> * A minimum of $5/mo for each additional child younger than 18 earth >>> years of >>> age >>> >>> The space rules are amended to include: >>> >>> * Minors under 18 earth years of age are not permitted to visit SYNHAK >>> without >>> the supervision of an adult and the permission of their parent/guardian. >>> >>> Key policy is updated to read: >>> >>> * Keys are restricted to those with membership before May 1st, 2014, and >>> afterwards only adults who are 18 earth years of age and older >>> ---->8---- >>> >>> Let me know if this is wrong at all. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Discuss mailing list >>> Discuss@synhak.org >>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss@synhak.org > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >
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