I had some off-list discussions with Seth, who was very much against
my original proposed text, and he suggested an alternative
organization that would be more palatable to him.  I've attempted to
set that out below.  The idea is to remove the normative requirements
about using p=reject from Sections 5.5.6 and 5.8, and instead put a
broader discussion of the issues, along with the normative
requirements, into a new "Interoperability Considerations" section.
This makes it explicitly clear that any MUST/SHOULD stuff with regard
to using and honoring p=reject is an issue of interoperating with
existing Internet email features.  I can accept that mechanism also,
and so, below is my attempt at writing that proposal up.

Barry

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— Section 5.5.6 —

ADD
   In making this decision it is important to understand the
   interoperability issues involved and problems that can result for
   mailing lists and for deliverability of legitimate mail. Those
   issues are discussed in detail in the Interoperability
   Considerations section [see Section x.x].
END

— Section 5.8 —

OLD
   Mail Receivers MAY choose to accept email that fails the DMARC
   mechanism check even if the published Domain Owner Assessment Policy
   is "reject".  In particular, because of the considerations discussed
   in [RFC7960], it is important that Mail Receivers SHOULD NOT reject
   messages solely because of a published policy of "reject", but that
   they apply other knowledge and analysis to avoid situations such as
   rejection of legitimate messages sent in ways that DMARC cannot
   describe, harm to the operation of mailing lists, and similar.
NEW
   Mail Receivers MAY choose to accept email that fails the DMARC
   mechanism check even if the published Domain Owner Assessment Policy
   is "reject".  In particular, because of the considerations discussed
   in [RFC7960] and in the Interoperability Considerations section of
   this document [see Section x.x], it is important that Mail Receivers
   not reject messages solely because of a published policy of "reject",
   but that they apply other knowledge and analysis to avoid situations
   such as rejection of legitimate messages sent in ways that DMARC
   cannot describe, harm to the operation of mailing lists, and similar.
END

— New section —

ADD
x.x Interoperability Considerations

   As discussed in “Interoperability Issues between DMARC and Indirect
   Email Flows [RFC7960], use of p=reject can be incompatible with and
   cause interoperability problems to indirect message flows such as
   “alumni forwarders”, role-based email aliases, and mailing lists
   across the Internet.

   Even a domain that expects to send only targeted messages to
   account holders — a bank, for example — could have account
   holders using addresses such as jo...@alumni.example.edu (an
   address that relays the messages to another address with a real
   mailbox) or finance@association.example (a role-based address that
   does similar relaying for the current head of finance at the
   association).  When such mail is delivered to the actual recipient
   mailbox, it will necessarily fail SPF checks, as the incoming
   IP address will be that of example.edu or association.example, and
   not an address authorized for the sending domain.  DKIM signatures
   will generally remain valid in these relay situations.

      It is therefore critical that domains that publish p=reject
      MUST NOT rely solely on SPF, and MUST apply valid DKIM signatures
      to their messages.

   Domains that have general users who send routine email are
   particularly likely to create interoperability issues if they
   publish p=reject.  For example, domains that serve as mailbox hosts
   and give out email addresses to the general public are best advised
   to delay adoption of p=reject until the authentication ecosystem
   becomes more mature and deliverability issues are better resolved.

   In particular, if users in p=reject domains post messages to
   mailing lists on the Internet, those messages can cause operational
   problems for the mailing lists and for the subscribers to those
   lists, as explained below and in [RFC7960].

      It is therefore critical that domains that host users who might
      post messages to mailing lists SHOULD NOT publish p=reject.
      Domains that choose to publish p=reject SHOULD implement
      policies that their users not post to Internet mailing lists.

   As noted in [Section 5.8], receiving domains need to apply more
   analysis than just DMARC evaluation in their disposition of
   incoming messages.  An example of the consequences of honoring
   p=reject without further anaysis is that rejecting messages that
   have been relayed by a mailing list can cause your own users to
   have their subscriptions to that mailing list cancelled by the
   list software’s automated handling of such rejections — it looks
   to the list manager as though the recipient’s email address is no
   longer working, so the address is automatically unsubscribed.

      It is therefore critical that receiving domains MUST NOT reject
      incoming messages solely on the basis of a p=reject policy by
      the sending domain.  Receiving domains must use the DMARC
      policy as part of their disposition decision, along with other
      knowledge and analysis.

   Failure to understand and abide by these considerations can cause
   legitimate, sometimes important email to be rejected, can cause
   operational damage to mailing lists throughout the Internet, and
   can result in trouble-desk calls and complaints from your own
   employees, customers, and clients.
END

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