On Fri, 28 Feb 2003 04:39:58 +0100
Bernhard Kaindl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, Jon Smirl wrote:
>
> > Long ago I loved the command line. I was an expert at
> > it. When Window 1.0 came out I got my first exposure
> > to a mouse. For about a year I wouldn't get one, but
> > now I can't live without it.
>
> Similar for me. And as I've read about a 3D Window System,
> my mind started to travel....
>
> I was thinking that it would be good to have a 3D X Server
> which can do the same things as todays X Servers do but also
> supports an 3D windowmanager API and possibly an extended 3D
> Application Window, or better Object API.
>
> Such advanced 3D windowmangers could then use these APIs to
> arrange 2D Windows and 3D Windows within the three dimensional
> world of the X-Server and of course the views into this world.
>
> Maybe even more such as brightness and color-correction.
>
> For example, the 3D windowmanager could then manage some
> xterm and emacs windows for those people which can't live
> without emacs or their favourite ASCII programs and of
> course their favourite webrowser.
I think this discussion is getting off track. We have to make clear what
we are talking about here. From the first mail on this subject I got the
impression, the goal was
- to implement accelerated 2D primitives using the 3D graphics engine.
This makes a lot of sense, as each transition between usage of the 2D
and 3D engine has to flush the graphics pipeline (at least on radeon).
It would both, increase performance and make the interaction between
Xserver and DRI clients potentially simpler.
Now it sounds more as if you wanted to propose something like X12 which
adds a completely new API. I don't think there is a need for that. You
have OpenGL and GLX for that. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but my
understanding is that you can, even now, use GLX in a window manager.
Another important issue in this context is accelerated indirect
rendering in order to allow untrusted local and remote clients to render
hardware accelerated 3D graphics.
At last let me point out, that one of the goals of the work Ian Romanick
is doing on the texmem branches is to make mixed 2D-3D GUIs practical
and efficient.
These are my thoughts on the practical side of this. If people want to
discuss bigger visions, go ahead ;)
>
> To let them live in the 3D world and give them already
> some benefits of 3D, the X-Server could render the flat
> output they produce not into flat framebuffer memory, but
> into textures which are displayed on objects in the 3D
> world and can be already transparent for example to give
> some nice views.
>
> The real 3D windows would of course not need to be flat,
> they could be externally as todays Mesa Applications look
> external, but new 3D windows could of course be 3D objects
> then.
>
> Where they appear and how you get them, destroy them, size
> and move them would be handled by the 3D windowmanager then.
>
> Bernd
>
> PS: For initial 3D windows I think of 3D clocks, which you
> can size, rotate and view them from a different angle with
> different lightning and fog.
>
> Also minimized icons or desktop icons could be small 3D objects
> hanging around behind, at the bottom of the screen or where
> you want them. Far or near, bright or dark.
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