The simple answer is "timing". Sometimes someone keys up before all this stuff happens.
All this "notification stuff" takes time. Time for the controller to stream it all up to the GW over the serial port, time for the GW to process, look up "CQCQCQ" and realize that callsign isn't registered and doesn't exist, time for the GW to send a message back down the serial port to the Controller, time for the Controller to trigger a PTT and wait a pre-determined time for the RF portion of the repeater's TX to come up to full power, and then the transmission. None of these times are very large, probably measured in hundreds of milliseconds, but in a real-time 2-way comm system, if another transmission or "something else" happens during all of the above, the question of "what wins?" is something only an Icom firmware Engineer could answer, and even then, probably only with a timing diagram and a huge whiteboard. (GRIN!) >From my experience, usually live transmissions get priority over the little text/data packets used for "confirmation" back to the user radios, but I've heard them "crash" into each other and the very beginning of a transmission and one or the other gets mangled, in otherwise perfect RF conditions, too. There's some minor bugs in that Controller... They apparently never load-tested it with tests similar to "bulk call" tests commonly done in telco switching systems where we're looking for "glare" and other issues in the communications protocols and overall software/firmware design. That or the budget and time to fix every last little timing glitch, was low... another common hurdle for companies building what, in this case, is virtually a "boutique" product in the RF world. Amateur Radio probably accounts for very little of Icom's total sales. 2m and up, even less. D-STAR, less but probably was a "growing" division compared to FM prior to the economic collapse. -- Nate Duehr n...@natetech.com On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 10:35 -0400, "Fran Miele" <f...@miele-family.com> wrote: I think I understand some of this. In our situation we are using DPLUS routing from our repeater to Ref010 along with several other repeaters. Why would we not get any beeps yet everyone heard the transmission? Thanks, Fran, W1FJM -----Original Message----- From: [1]dstar_digi...@yahoogroups. com [mailto:[2]dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nate Duehr Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 10:14 AM To: [3]dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Beeps This is correct from my experience, and it makes sense from a "systems design" standpoint, also. Read on. Starting with an additional data point/example, if you remove the RPT2 route to the Gateway from your radio, you won't receive a confirmation transmission from the Gateway, and thus... one beep only. If you use direct callsign routes, the original way the system was designed/engineered, the behavior is also slightly different. The second transmission from local repeater (beep) w/confirmation that the transmission properly routed, takes longer because it's a confirmation that the Gateway on the FAR END received and routed the transmission, not just a "I don't know who you're trying to route to, but CQCQCQ doesn't exist on any Gateway". The latter being the actual message that's being sent in the "second beep" that most folks are seeing in the 2nd beep in a D-Plus linked QSQ. In a callsign route, useful information is passed back to the end- radio-user in that second (beep) transmission from the local GW/ repeater. In D-Plus linking, the software is not FULLY integrated in its implementation, and has no control over that reply transmissions, and D-PLUS can "see" if it routed to the far-end or not, but has no mechanism for reporting that back the the user. It only reports connectivity in it's logs, accessible only to the GW admin. The original design passed that information all the way back to the end-radio-user. It's actually a desirable feature, and both conveys information directly, and also indirectly about the quality of the link. (Lots of errors, or slower/faster gives clues to connectivity problems, even if they're not explicitly shown in data.) Sadly, so few people actually try out/use the original callsign routed mode... that it's easy to see how the double-beep makes less sense, than it does when the system is used as originally engineered. And it's hard to see how it was well-thought-out/designed the behavior is, by observing it. It should be a confirmation transmission from the far-end saying, "Your transmission made it here, so you have a reasonable expectation that the person you're calling/talking to, heard it." In a D-Plus QSO, there's zero confirmation that anything other than the local GW computer heard your transmission. Not knocking it, but it's one magnitude less "informative" than the much-maligned, originally-engineered design. Nate WY0X On Oct 14, 2009, at 7:52 AM, Robbie De Lise wrote: > As I experience it i think something like this: > > No beep: The repeater did not confirm your TX, prolly no RX on the > repeater side > 1st beep: The repeater (CALL A, B or C) confirms your TX > 2nd beep: The gateway (CALL G) confirms your TX. > > Ofcourse, when someone pushes the PTT right after the BEEP or before > the BEEP, > the repeater does not have the time to send the confirmation out. > (The confirmations are send seperately from the DV transmission) > > so: > > DV TX > stop TX > Confirm Repeater TX (BEEP) > stop TX > Confirm Gateway TX (BEEP) > stop TX > > if someone pushes the mike faster its like: > > DV TX > stop TX > Confirm Repeater TX (BEEP) > stop TX > DV TX > stop TX > Confirm Repeater TX (BEEP) > stop TX > Confirm Gateway TX (BEEP) > stop TX > > or even: > > DV TX > stop TX > DV TX > stop TX > Confirm Repeater TX (BEEP) > stop TX > Confirm Gateway TX (BEEP) > stop TX > > > > I could also be completely wrong :) > > Let me know if someone else has the same experience. > > 73s > Robbie > > > On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Fran Miele <[4]f...@miele-family.com> > wrote: > > > Several of the users on our system have been discussing the beeps > heard on a repeater and it is clear we really don't understand them. > > > I'm sure this has been asked many times before but I can't seem to > find a definite answer. Can someone explain the beeps that are heard > at the end of a transmission on a repeater? Sometimes there are two, > sometimes one and sometimes none. > > > What do they mean, and why the variation? > > > Thanks in advance, > > > Fran, W1FJM > > ------------------------------------ Please TRIM your replies or set your email program not to include the original message in reply unless needed for clarity. ThanksYahoo! 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