I would have to agree with Peter. I had considered using the DynAPI for an
upcoming project, but I've been a bit stymied by some of the bugs and the
lack of documentation. I don't mean to belittle the effort invested so
far--the developers have truly done a great job. I just think that
perfecting the toolkit should be a priority. That's just an outside
opinion...
Chuck
>From: Peter Dvorsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: [Dynapi-Help] DynBuilder proposal
>Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 16:18:05 -0500
>
>
>OK, here's 2 cents from a recent user of DynAPI...
>DynAPI is a fantastic toolkit. It's almost-realized promise is the ability
>to do elaborate, polished cross-browser DHTML completely transparently
>without reference to the enormous divergences in the individual browser
>platforms.
>I am using it to build a rich GUI for a complex application. Without DynAPI
>I would probably turn to Java + Swing and have to accept all of the
>concomitant constraints and hassles. DynAPI makes it possible for me to do
>a UI of equivalent polish and richness using the browsers' built-in
>capabilities.
>
>Now the boring bit....I said "almost-realized" because DynAPI still has a
>lot of holes and problems. The issue of using some of the dynapi.gui
>widgets in frames is one that I recently mentioned to this group. I hacked
>my way through that problem but that raised issues in dragevents.js that
>now prevent my app from running on Netscape 4.x. The lack of clear and
>consistent how-to documentation is another hole that limits the usability
>of the toolkit.
>
>I believe if these problems could be ironed out and the toolkit extended to
>give consistent good results on NS6 as well as the NS4.x+ and IE4.x+
>browsers, this development effort could have a truly enormous impact on how
>complex web applications are done.
>
>I am worried that if the limited mind-share of the development group gets
>dispersed to take on the huge issue of an IDE, then this toolkit will never
>live up to its potential. It's going to take a big effort to wring out the
>remaining bugs and inconsistencies. Give the world a solid toolkit first,
>is my plea.
>
>Thanks to all of the developers for their excellent work and prompt
>response to the questions posed in this forum.
>
>peterD
>
>At 03:54 PM 1/4/2001 -0500, you wrote:
>>Well, I guess it is time for me to say something as well...
>>
>>At the very first moment when I saw DynAPI 1 I said " oh my god, if we
>>only had an IDE " and there you go a year and a half later we are talking
>>about it... The truth is that I am in by all means, and on the top of
>>everything I know two programming languages only... Delphi and Java... So
>>for me it would not make a big difference which one we would chose, even
>>though I will have to strongly agreeeeee with Pascal that our work will be
>>a lot less if we chose Delphi, and since they are going to support Win32
>>and Linux we are set with coverage... (actually Pascal I heard that the
>>way they rewrote the new VCL pretty soon they will support Solaris as
>>well)...
>>
>>So I say...
>>Lets go for it...
>>
>>/ivokivo
>>
>>
>>>From: Dan Steinman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>Subject: Re: [Dynapi-Help] DynBuilder proposal
>>>Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 17:30:53 -0500
>>>
>>>Over a year ago I was playing around with writing a gui program for
>>>drawing layers in Java. I didn't get very far in it, but I did get a
>>>grasp as to how big of a job it would be.
>>>
>>>An editor written with DynAPI has some great benefits like being able to
>>>utilize the browser for drawing capabilities and being web enabled.
>>>However there are serious limitations like not being able to write to a
>>>file, and load the file (since an editor has to go both ways or else it's
>>>just a wizard/generator). Also you'd be severly limited as to how
>>>sophisticated you could make the program.
>>>
>>>The ultimate goal would be a Dreamweaver clone. And to do it properly it
>>>would almost definately have to be written outside of a browser. I would
>>>be interested in writing an editor in Java.
>>>
>>>Such a project could easily become a great deal larger than the DynAPI.
>>>First you have to get a usable wysiwyg editor which is very cumberson in
>>>itself once you get beyond drawing simple rectangles. Then you need to
>>>get file I/O, you need to be able to generate JavaScript code and save it
>>>to a file. That isn't too difficult. But the big problem is when you
>>>want to load up an existing file that you created (and hand-edited).
>>>You'd need to write a JavaScript and DynAPI code parser and be able to
>>>draw everything roperly. If you catch my drift, you have to write a mini
>>>web browser/editor in Java!
>>>
>>>Beyond just the wysiwyg portion there's a ton more of things that you
>>>could do. Widget editors, timeline animation editors, being able to
>>>coordinate browser events to do certain actions (hide,show,move etc).
>>>
>>>It's an enormous project which would require a lot of minds (and
>>>experienced Java coders). I would hope there is enough of us interested
>>>in at least attempting to write such a program cause it's something that
>>>I've wanted to do for a long time now.
>>>
>>>Dan
>>>
>>>
>>>On Thu, Jan 04, 2001 at 05:23:57AM -0800, Henrik V�glin wrote:
>>> > (OOPS learned I couldn't post this to widget-dev list,
>>> > so here it goes instead)
>>> >
>>> > I'm working on a proposal for a DynBuilder ie a
>>> > webbased tool to build DynAPI code WITH utilising
>>> > DynAPI (how cool is that, eh?)
>>> >
>>> > Anyway, while trying to work out the structure and
>>> > model of such a tool I have begun with the task to
>>> > build a GUI for it using the current DynAPI (or at
>>> > least the one on my HD) to find out what in the DynAPI
>>> > can be used and what else is required or desirable.
>>> >
>>> > So far I have created an own extension called layerpos
>>> > to position a layer according to the page's borders,
>>> > which I've implemented into my own class called
>>> > ccreation (aimed at my ComicCreation site
>>> > development). I've also compiled a new keyevents
>>> > extension (using code and ideas from various other
>>> > keyboard events scripts) now found in the dynacore
>>> > distribution (and in my still unrelesed ccreation
>>> > distribution).
>>> >
>>> > Now for my structure proposal I'm considering all
>>> > documents, dynlayers, widgets etc - ie any part of the
>>> > page under editing - as objects (Object Oriented as it
>>> > should be, no?). To define a distinction between
>>> > objects of the page and those of the DynBuilder, I'll
>>> > call the latter for modules. Modules are essentially
>>> > tools used for editing or viewing objects in the
>>> > workspace (ie the page in editing).
>>> >
>>> > Things I think will be required (that I can think of
>>> > now) and that aren't available in any DynAPI
>>> > distribution to my knowledge are:
>>> >
>>> > * a focusmanager which enables DynBuilder to know
>>> > which layer is currently in focus
>>> >
>>> > * a manager that reads out the avaialble properties,
>>> > events and methods of an object
>>> >
>>> > * a manager for loading a page (or several pages
>>> > maybe) into DynBuilder for editing
>>> >
>>> > * a preview mode for viewing the page and maybe a
>>> > cookiemanager for setting preferences on different
>>> > browser installation paths for prev
>>> >
>>> > * a CodeView (or name it CoreView maybe ;) widget that
>>> > contains the current code of the page in edit
>>> >
>>> > * a formmanager that prepares (a standard) output to a
>>> > ServerTask (so it can be recieved in any serverside
>>> > language) - I've seen discussion about creating or how
>>> > to build one, so maybe that one are already in
>>> > progress
>>> >
>>> > If anybody know that any of these are already a part
>>> > of DynAPi or any available widgetpack or distribution
>>> > OR if anybody has any extension or widget similar to
>>> > this and would share it for the DynBuilder I'd be most
>>> > interested to take a look. I'd also apprieate it if
>>> > someone wants to code and contribute it, just let
>>> > everybody know if you take on the task. The same goes
>>> > for the below even if these have less priority.
>>> >
>>> > Things I think is desirable (for the DynBuilder GUI at
>>> > least):
>>> >
>>> > * an docking ability of dynlayers used as modules
>>> > (tools for creating and modify objects in the
>>> > workspace (ie the page in editing)
>>> >
>>> > * an WYSIWYG component that runs code from the
>>> > CodeViewand returns modifictions made to the objects
>>> > in it infinality to the CodeView and also returning
>>> > the layer in focus to the DynBuilder when clicked on
>>> > (or as has sprung to mind - chosen by toggling with
>>> > keyboard keys - ie adding a keyevent or two)
>>> >
>>> > If any body is interested in getting a snapshot
>>> > preview of my DynBuilder proposal GUI presentation,
>>> > just let me know and I'll send over a full
>>> > distribution including the working set of dynapi, my
>>> > custom ccreation class and examples. Mind you I
>>> > haven't done any testing besides in IE 5.01 and NS
>>> > 4.76 though and there are to be expected a few bugs
>>> > here or there including missing parts. The code and
>>> > filestructure though could work as a better outline of
>>> > where I'm at in this stage.
>>> >
>>> > If anybody have comments, suggestions or additions to
>>> > this proposal, please do post'em to the widgetdev list
>>> > or notify me. Mind you I do not wish to monopolize the
>>> > development of this, so please, please let me have
>>> > some input - even if you are a strong opponent to this
>>> > proposal. If you however like it and want to become a
>>> > part of DynBuilder team and contribute to its
>>> > development mind you all doors are open to do so since
>>> > this no less open source than the rest pf DynAPI (or
>>> > sourceforge) - my main focus is to make the DynBuilder
>>> > as open for extensability as DynAPI itself at least,
>>> > hence its an extension of DynAPI itself.
>>> >
>>> > Henrik V�glin [[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>> >
>>> > =====
>>> > // Henrik Vaglin
>>> >
>>> > **************************************************
>>> > Visit my comics artpage at
>>> > http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/hvaglin?d&.flabel=fld5&.src=bc
>>> > **************************************************
>>> >
>>> > __________________________________________________
>>> > Do You Yahoo!?
>>> > Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
>>> > http://shopping.yahoo.com/
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
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>>> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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>>>
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>
>
>Peter Dvorsky [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>CaseBank Technologies Inc. 905.792.0618 x519
>
>
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