Hi Warren, On 5/8/07, Warren W. Aney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > And it may be that the Southern Baptist perspective is closer to the Roma= n > Catholic > (and Eastern Orthodox) perspectives than you might think,
I used to be an altar boy (Roman Catholic), and I grew up in the deep south with Southern Baptist friends and neighbos, arguing evolution since I was = a child, so I am reasonably certain I understand the difference. particularly when it comes to contemporary issues such as abortion, > homosexuality and Biblical > inerrancy. Funny that these issues are classed together. Abortion is an issue of women's rights, homosexuality is an issue of individual rights, and Biblica= l inerrancy is an historical and faith-based issue. The first two can be anybody's opinion, and the last is actually not a matter of opinion, but rather of obstinancy. But, in all cases, someone wants to foist their opinions on others. more accepting of a Buddhist perspective than that of a fundamentalist > Christian. And fundamentalist Christians have a lot in common with > fundamentalist Muslims, at least in tactics if not in theology. Exactly my point - they can't all be right. I tried to emphasize that there are some very important inexplicables, many > having to do with purpose -- purposes for creation at one end of the scal= e > and for individual lives at the other. I would suggest that these "inexplicables" are just that because they presuppose "purpose" when indeed, purposes are choices, not causes. I would say that a scientist should understand that, based on the evidence, there i= s no reason to believe that there was a purpose for the big bang, there is no purpose for our lives, there was no "creation" and so it can't have a purpose either. By purpose, I mean a prior reason for these things. We give our own lives purpose. But sure, people can believe anything they want - there is no law that says anybody need have rational belief systems. Some people think that every thing happens for a reason, whatever that might mean. But, I would say no scientist should think that way. To me, one of the most amazing of inexplicable phenomena is the altruistic > atheist. As an altruistic atheist, I would say that it is easy to understand. Scienc= e is fascinating. Being nice is better than being bad. As as scientist, I do not see any great thrill in being hedonistic - my thrills are philosophical and from fascination with nature. Indeed, as far as I can tell, the atheistic altruist is easy to understand. The selfish Christian or Moslem is what I can't figure out. To me, a life that denies ultimate purpose should be a life that is > hedonistic and self-centered. That is your particular misunderstanding of what it means to live understanding that life has no purpose. Purpose is what we chose to give our lives. How does Darwinian selection explain altruism towards another human who > shares so very little of your unique genotype? Easily, I would suggest. At the time in our evolutionary history when natural selection selected, groups of people probably all had some familial ties. People could help their own reproductive fitness by helping others, defending the group against others and so on. Remember, it is quite likely that you share a large number of genes with a random stranger, so even helping him out could help copies of those same genes that you carry. Besides, as humans, we can go beyond our genetic tendencies and recognize that we can make rational choices. We can choose to be nice because it makes others like us more, and since they like us, we like them back. This standard is so often mentioned in > both the Hebrew and Christian Bibles (and in the Koran and in Buddhist > literature), that I wonder if it's somehow a transcendent message that's > been slowly and persistently filtering through human intellects. I'd bet it is just common in social organisms. Watch a flock of parrots. They keep an eye out for each other. Monkeys, ditto. Many social animals take care of each other. And, as people we have learned to communicate, an= d through communication come up with even better reasons to help each other out. Note that atheists rarely go to war for their causes. There have bee= n to date no atheist suicide bombers. Dictators - as far as I know, they are all religious in some way or another. The craziest presidents have been among the most religious....just look at the Bushes....and Nixon. As Prof. E. O. Wilson says, "Science and religion are the two most powerful > forces of society." We need to harness the combined power of both if we > are > going to solve some of the great challenges facing our world today (see > Wilson's 2006 book "The Creation"). Scientists, as responsible citizens, > cannot afford to dismiss religion as just superstition. I would suggest that first, science can only dismiss religion as superstition. The definition of superstition is "any belief, based on fear or ignorance, that is inconsistent with the known laws of science or with what is generally considered in that particular society of true and rational; esp. such a belief in charms, omens, the supernatural, etc." From a scientist's perspective, religion is superstition. Second, religious people are even more dismissive of science and of other religions. The problem is not that scientist's don't deal well with religion, but rather that religion does not deal well with science. You should have said above, "Religious people, as responsible citizens, cannot afford to dismiss science because it does not support their faith." Cheers, Jim --=20 James J. 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