I'm very sorry to see that a few folks have had bad experiences in grad school. Many of us had very happy and productive times as graduate students. But I've seen enough over the years to recognize that faults in advisors, or in advisees, or both can result in mediocre to bad outcomes – most often for the advisee, but sometimes for the advisor as well.
I did, however, want to comment on the statement that "When we graduate, we have more or less the same credentials as everyone else (with) a degree." If you intend to pursue an academic career in research, nothing could be further than the truth. In cases where large numbers of recently minted Ph.D.'s or post-docs apply for several jobs in the same field, often the same, relatively few individuals get to short lists and are interviewed across the country. Applicants whose Ph.D. research (and subsequent work) are perceived to have significant, novel implications – and be scalable to future endeavors, and fundable by NSF or other agencies or foundations – are much more likely to be interviewed and offered jobs. That is what search committees look for. Not that search committees never make mistakes; they do, sometimes egregiously. A Ph.D. gets you in the door to submit an application, but you need excellent research, combined with strong writing and oral presentation skills, ability to think on your feet, and empathy to interact well with students and colleagues, to have a real chance of success at landing a job at first- or second-tier universities. Thomas J. Givnish Henry Allan Gleason Professor of Botany University of Wisconsin givn...@wisc.edu http://botany.wisc.edu/givnish/Givnish/Welcome.html On 10/18/12, brandi gartland wrote: > As I am currently deciding on whether to enter a PhD program vs. consulting > work/career position, I am finding this feed quite informative and wanted to > respond to: > > "When we graduate, we have more or less the same credentials as everyone else > a degree. There are many successful scientists without Ph.D.'s but many more > with Ph.D.'s who are unemployed." > > I immediately thought of sharing this documentary, as it illustrates this > very point as well as other ideas: > > http://www.knowledgeoftoday.org/2012/02/education-college-conspiracy-exposed.html > > -It illustrates how the U.S. educational system is not what it used to be and > "exposes the facts and truth about America's college education system. It was > was produced over a six-month period by NIA's team of expert Austrian > economists with the help of thousands of NIA members who contributed their > ideas and personal stories for the film. NIA believes the U.S. college > education system is a scam that turns vulnerable young Americans into debt > slaves for life." > > > Best wishes for us all in life, love, work, and happiness. > > Brandi > M.S. Candidate Avian Sciences > University of California, Davis > > > > > > > > Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 10:29:21 -0700 > > From: jane....@gmail.com > > Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] "The Audacity of Graduate School" > > To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU > > > > On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 6:40 AM, Aaron T. Dossey <bugoc...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > When we graduate, we have more or less the same credentials as everyone > > > else > > > - a degree. There are many successful scientists without Ph.D.'s but many > > > more with Ph.D.'s who are unemployed. > > > > Can you make a rough estimate of the relative frequencies of each. > > > > > Also, to emphasize how little we get out of > > > a Ph.D. (a lot is stolen from us), we don't get credit for our work or > > > publications because the professor always gets credit for everything we do > > > while in their lab as a student or postdoc (which is something I am > > > fighting > > > on other fronts - I call it institutionalized intellectual property > > > theft). > > > > Isn't that taken care of by the first author/last author distinction? > > A PI may get some undeserved credit, but that's different from the > > student not getting credit. The paper is still cited as Student et al. > > Or are you talking about taking the student's idea outright? > > > > BTW, if you believe that grad students are employees to the point of > > needing a union and thinking of their advisor as their boss, I would > > point out that people who do creative work as employees rarely keep > > the rights to their work. Typically, the intellectual property belongs > > to their employer ("work done for hire"). Isn't it better to say that > > grad students are not employees? > > > > -- > > ------------- > > Jane Shevtsov, Ph.D. > > Mathematical Biology Curriculum Writer, UCLA > > co-founder, www.worldbeyondborders.org > > > > “Those who say it cannot be done should not interfere with those who > > are doing it.” --attributed to Robert Heinlein, George Bernard Shaw > > and others --
