Hi Ian, "While plant ecology abandoned Clements a generation or two ago, like a lot of things that hasn't always trickled down to more applied areas."
Just out of curiosity, can you cite a few references where Clements in still used in invasion biology, specifically in "more applied areas"? I admit it is annoying but applied folks tend not to publish and when they do, it is often in gray literature. Many academic biologists thus may have a relatively uninformed, Rumsfeldian knowledge of what happens on the ground. In addition, management of invasive species has a huge social component. Relatively few academics are familiar, much less comfortable, with this aspect. Finally there is the problem when protecting rare 'primary' forest that ivory tower academics serve albeit unwittingly as effective apologists for the destruction of the same. What does it matter if the forest goes? Super tramp species can often "provide the same services" and look forest. My best examples are all those novel forestry projects China has tried, like the Green Wall in its grasslands or the evergreen forests in heavy snow belts. It is sort of like regional cooking versus Western fast food. Macdonalds and Kentucky Fried Chicken can arguably provide nutrition and definitely taste great, but these invasive aliens threaten regional foods and indirectly local cultures. We can live in a world of Big Macs and fries, or we can sample baozi, feijoada, yak yogurt, gallo pinto, pachamanca/hangi, or callalo, although, personally having tried them, I will not much mourn the passing of muktuk, haggis, Vegemite, and guinea pig. Finally there is the arrogance of the present. Much of conservation biology is ultimately about preserving options for our children and their children's children. Our knowledge about "novel ecosystems" is basically recent and primitive, as is our knowledge of invasion biology. What seems like a good idea involving "novel ecosystems" may be seen as blithering stupidity a century from now, as new crop pests continue to arrive (elm, chestnut etc, etc), local diseases turn epidemic (SARS), fires rearrange the suburbs, and watersheds dry up. Not that the US lacks for its share. There is a marvelous field called ecological history. Cronon, Crosby, Pyne, McEvoy (to mention a few of my favorites) cover invasive species as part of a bigger picture which appears to be too often lacking in contemporary ecology. They are worth reading. Cows, grass, bees, Europeans were all invasive taxa that have now become part of the American landscape, dominants in "novel ecosystems". Had one asked the Sioux or Nez Perce in 1877 or 1890 whether cows or Europeans were invasive, well history speaks for itself. Cheers, David Duffy On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 7:01 AM, Ian Ramjohn <iramj...@outlook.com> wrote: > While plant ecology abandoned Clements a generation or two ago, like a lot > of things that hasn't always trickled down to more applied areas. > > For this stuff specifically, there's a whole literature on 'novel > ecosystems' that has developed in the last several years...Richard Hobbs, > Ariel Lugo, Timothy Seasted, etc. Plenty by Lugo et al. on tropical forest > systems. > > On Aug 29, 2013, at 6:49 PM, "David Duffy" <ddu...@hawaii.edu> wrote: > > > I'd suggest that before folks get too excited about challenges to "our > > ideas regarding community assembly", they reread Gleason (1926), > Whittaker > > (1975) and Hubbell (2001), amongst others. Also isolated islands with > > depauperate faunas and floras may not be the best models for general > > ecological theory, although they have done pretty well for evolution. > > > > David Duffy > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 5:01 AM, Richard Boyce <boy...@nku.edu> wrote: > > > >> Here's a *very* interesting story on the human-assembled ecosystems of > >> Ascension Island in the tropical South Atlantic: > >> > http://e360.yale.edu/feature/on_a_remote_island_lessons__in_how_ecosystems_function/2683/ > >> > >> I suspect that further research here may challenge our ideas regarding > >> community assembly. > >> > >> ================================ > >> Richard L. Boyce, Ph.D. > >> Director, Environmental Science Program > >> Professor > >> Department of Biological Sciences, SC 150 > >> Northern Kentucky University > >> Nunn Drive > >> Highland Heights, KY 41099 USA > >> > >> 859-572-1407 (tel.) > >> 859-572-5639 (fax) > >> boy...@nku.edu<mailto:boy...@nku.edu> > >> http://www.nku.edu/~boycer/ > >> ================================= > >> > >> "One of the advantages of being disorderly is that one is constantly > >> making exciting discoveries." - A.A. Milne > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Pacific Cooperative Studies Unit > > Botany > > University of Hawaii > > 3190 Maile Way > > Honolulu Hawaii 96822 USA > > 1-808-956-8218 > -- Pacific Cooperative Studies Unit Botany University of Hawaii 3190 Maile Way Honolulu Hawaii 96822 USA 1-808-956-8218
