Lets not knock EXCEL for statistics. Most of the responses are biased, because they don't have to pay the excessive cost of the software they are recommending. The EXCEL stat package comes with Microsoft OFFICE, so in many, many situations, the stat software is FREE. You can't beat that. I am familiar with the University of Phoenix. It is one of the for-profit corporations that offer a BS/BA for those who can devote the time to class room and learning teams, and have the money for their education (and books). Like any for profit corporation, it has shareholders, an established corporate image that has to be maintained, and a strong motivation to earn a profit each quarter. The University of Phoenix (UOP) has education centers in almost every city in the US, and is expanding into Europe. The UOP is focused on adult education, primarily for those working full time each day. A class runs from 6PM to 10PM, one day a week. A complete course runs 5 or more weeks. A student takes only one course a week until it is completed. Besides class room time, a student is part of a small learning team that meets once or twice a week. The team is responsible for homework, papers and projects that are assigned. Teachers are called facilitators, and the emphasis is on the teacher "facilitating" the self-learning efforts of the student. Introductory statistics is taught to those pursuing a degree in accounting and management. There is a separate course for each major, although they are similar. Both are two segments (i.e. two semesters), with the accounting one 5 weeks each segment and the management one 6 weeks each segment. The segments are taken in sequence. The subject is taught within the framework of the statistical package in EXCEL. EXCEL is the only software they learn during the courses. Most incoming students are weak in math, and rarely does a student have a calculus background. UP provides all necessary access to PC's. Each classroom has a PC projection unit, facilitating the teaching of commands and what the screens show when inputs are made. The approach is more toward a mechanical, application oriented statistics. The courses include learning all the built in graphical techniques. The project each team must complete for each segment, is relatively simple. Typical is one to do a simple linear regression on real data, determine predictions, and confidence intervals about the prediction, and "package" it into a POWERPOINT presentation. Graduates are assumed that they will be using EXCEL methods in accounting/business to explore data, and to draw conclusions from it. I have no idea how graduates would react when they have to deal with other types of software and concepts beyond EXCEL. I can't show the syllabuses, because they are copyrighted. The syllabuses were prepared by people with PhDs in education. The syllabuses did not show any of the newer approaches to obtain a better understanding of statistics. In one class I attended, the students had the "standard" confusion over concepts, such as probability, z test, t test,....... No matter how you look at it, one who has a weak background in math, will have real trouble trying to understand concepts. I came out of the experience with mixed feelings. David A. Heiser ================================================================= Instructions for joining and leaving this list and remarks about the problem of INAPPROPRIATE MESSAGES are available at http://jse.stat.ncsu.edu/ =================================================================