Stan Brown wrote:

> Jill Binker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in sci.stat.edu:
> >Even assuming the test yields a good measure of how well the students know
> >the material (which should be investigated, rather than assumed),  it isn't
> >telling you whether students have learned more from the class itself,
> >unless you assume all students started from the same place.

> Good point! I was unconsciously making that very assumption, and I
> thank you for reminding me that it _is_ an assumption.

I did assume that in my earlier post.  Stupid!  Albeit in  the context of my
old uni understandable.   Just shows one cannot take anything for granted.

>
> I had already decided to lead off with an assessment test the first
> day of class next time, for the students' benefit.

Err,  see below.  Should anyone do this to me he/she  might be in trouble.

> (If they should
> be in a more or less advanced class, the sooner they know it the
> better for them.) But as you point out, that will benefit me too.
> The other instructor has developed a pre-assessment test over the
> past couple of years, and has offered to let me use it too, so we'll
> be able to establish comparable baselines.

Can I suggest that this may or may not be a good idea?  I once did some data
analysis on a test for chemistry students.  The unfortunate finding was that
the Chemistry Profs  who had constructed the test  did not understand what
were  the best predictors of success.  Not published as far as I know.

If you want a good test you need a good psychometrican.  His/her stats  skills,
probably are indifferent (such as mine are) but what we do know is how to
measure people (en mass that is).  And given the right people we can analyze
what a student (worker) must do.  It is often different from the ideal. Job
analysis is important even for students

Give a call to the local Psych  Dept.  They always have a few grad students
wanting money and hopefuly  a usable data base.  Ask for an Indusriall or I/O
grad.

A home grown test without norms, reliabilyt , validty  stats,  etc.  I can see
lawyers (and myself if called as a witness- although I really don't have the
qualifications)  just salivating.

>
> >As I gather is common in this field, the problem isn't statistics per se,
> >but framing questions that can be answered by the kind of data you can get.

Err see above for the  problem :)

 ------------------
John Kane
The Rideau Lakes, Ontario Canada




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