In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Brett Magill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Herman Rubin wrote:
>>time and resources. Even the "ordinary" students should
>>get much more, but this would make the curriculum too
>>difficult for a fair-sized portion of the students; this
>>seems to be the case already. At least 20% of the students
>>should enter college in their early teens with the equivalent
>>of the current "honors" high school program.
>> As I have said elsewhere, enrichment is a total waste of
>>> In short - schools that are prepared to admit to the
>>>existence of gifted children had better learn to recognize
>>>then by more valid criteria than IQ tests.
>>> -Robert Dawson
>>The easiest way to get this started is to disestablish the
>>public schools, and to make alternatives affordable. Also,
>>requiring teachers to understand subject matter as determined
>>by subject matter scholars, not educatists, who would not be
>>required or expected to pass the majority of the current
>>teachers or applicants.
>I am not sure why you believe the solution is dissolution of the public
>school system. Do you really think that non-public alternatives would
>really do better under the same conditions?
Yes, if they are not under the restrictions which the
public schools must undergo for political and other
irrelevant reasons. This even applies to hiring teachers;
the public schools must hire teachers who have taken the
courses from the schools of education which are a large
part of the cause of the weakness. While there are a FEW
public high schools which are highly selective, it is next
to impossible for public schools at this time to do other
than grade a year for most, and they have to accept all.
There are a few academic private schools, but not many.
I know of some academic private schools in low-income areas
which have done quite well.
There is no more reason to require children to go to the
same schools than for their parents to shop at the same
groceries, etc. In fact, we will need more than "schools",
but educational facilities, where the child's ability and
background, and to some extent interest, will determine the
type of curriculum given. I suspect the situation should be
a combination of self-study, present-type classes given by
electronic means, present-type classes in such things as
music (for the non-gifted) and physical education, and
possibly others.
...............
>Part of the success of private schools and even public schools in
>wealthy schools districts is their exclusionary nature. One of the most
>consistent relationships in education is that between parents education
>and academic success of children. To the degree that parents are poor
>and undereducated in high proportions, schools will perform poorly.
This was not the case among several immigrant groups. This
was not the case for me. BTW, the SCHOOLS performed poorly
for me, as essentially all I got out of them was the presentation
of the topics, and then I learned on my own. There was opposition
to the progress I was allowed in elementary school.
................
>Further, will vouchers automagically solve the teacher standards problem
>that you point out? No, of course not. This is not an issue for the
>schools. Instead, this is a problem for the system of higher education
>that certifies teachers.
This is a vicious cycle. The non-public schools would be free
to ignore the present certification system, and to hire only
those who understood their subjects. It would take a few years
for it to become apparent that their students learned much more.
It will take decades for an adequate number of competent teachers
to be produced, as having gone through the present public schools
is already an impediment. It IS that bad.
--
This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views
are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558
.
.
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