On 9/15/06, Arthur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I keep thinking that your analysis here is confounded with your > Fullerism, which is why I come at it a bit and try to encourage > you to separate it from your interest in programming/math > synergies. Not asking or expecting you to compromise your Fuller > crusade. Just separate the crusades a bit. The fact is, despite how I > might sound, my general associations with Fuller are positive - as a > freewheeling intelligence, as an "adventurous explorer". Caution to the > wind. But if we take someone like Kay - who I think I can see more > clearly - as a similar spirit, I think we tend to get some who, out of > lack of caution , will be the most right in some cases, the most > wrong in others. > > Like you and like I, on edu-sig.
Sure, I'm happy to look at two different campaigns. The Fuller thing is going well, and so is CP4E. Both campaigns have teeth, get work done. We win some and we lose some, but the overall trends are, from my perspective, in a healthy direction. > Separate the fact that Fuller has not gotten the recognition you feel he > has earned within the academic community, and I think your analysis > would be different. And it may follow that your analysis of my analysis will change, as name recognition stops being a problem. Fuller's namespace is difficult, but so was Heidegger's. Philosophy was never advertised as easy. > I'm all for conspiracy theories. There is little else to fall back on > when one feels that things have gone terribly wrong. We seem to share > some feelings that things have. > > I guess I fall back on the simplest possibility - follow the money. I have no quarrel with that. > The possibility that the Python prompt might be the kind of tool most > effective in an educational setting is a tremendous threat. It's not > only the fact that it is free, it is the fact that is not even software > in the sense that the software industry wants us to believe is necessary > for this kind of assignment. The are many billions of dollars at > stake. Much else follows from there. And in sounding this note, I think you and Alan Kay are in perfect harmony. He's sung that tune for years, and not even often key. You detest money grubbing software companies polluting academia for selfish ends. Me too. But I also see independent sources of pollution in academia which private companies sometimes effectively fight, by offering that valuable "real world" reality check. > It is for others to decide whether my incautious statements along these > lines might have some ring of truth. > > Art > I appreciate your nothing to lose attitude and willingness to take what you think might be difficult positions for some to take. It used to bother me more, when I felt your positions difficult. Nowadays, I'm in a generally positive stance (winning my war), except I prefer sports metaphors to war metaphors, just like I hate killing birds (and eat chicken). Kirby _______________________________________________ Edu-sig mailing list Edu-sig@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig