I'm still in a state of flux about where to go next after PataPata Phase I (recently discussed here). Assuming I continue with Python (rather than moving more towards Smalltalk, either Squeak or one for the JVM), what interests me most is working on cross-platform applications (Mac, PC, GNU/Linux). Fro cross-platform work, I prefer Jython & Swing over a Python plus widget set solution. This is because Swing is cross platform, Sun has announced plans to put lots of Java under the GPL, the JVM lets me ship very portable Java code alongside the Jython code if needed for performance, and we have already used Jython in cross-platform Mac, PC, GNU/Linux commercial projects with some success (we've only used Python + wxWidgets on PC and GNU/Linux, not Mac).
However, for the areas I am interested in, especially educational simulations, being able to run on the One Laptop Per Child (OLPC) platform would be a nice motivating plus. However OLPC does not currently run Java. And with its resource constraints, the best choice for the OLPC is the mainline supported system, which is Python 2.4 (maybe later) and GTK+. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_Python_Environment (Some variant of Squeak Smalltalk is another possibility too, as there is work on that.) http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Etoys Now, I don't *need* to support OLPC, and the JVM might run there someday, but I would say that is my biggest sticking point going forward with Jython/Swing if I stick with Python over Smalltalk. Our garden simulator especially is a natural match for the OLPC goals (and we have previously had people in various developing nations interested in it). So, I know I brought up this topic of PyGTK etc. before only about six months ago, but the computing landscape continues to change rapidly. So, what do people have to say now about using GTK+ (which the OLPC supports) for cross platform educational work these days, especially on the Mac and PC (since GNU/Linux support will be excellent)? Previously when I asked this there was a big groan from the Macintosh side of the Python educational community (at least from Brad Miller, see below). However, since then there is a continuing move for Aqua support for GTK. See: http://developer.imendio.com/projects/gtk-macosx "This is the project site for the effort to port Gtk+ 2 to Mac OS X natively (so that you can run Gtk+ applications without X11 on Mac OS X)." And from:: http://www.pygtk.org/ "PyGTK 2.10.0 includes the following new features: ... MacOS X support" Brad Miller had written back in June: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/2006-June/006571.html "There is some work in GTK+ 2.9.x to get a native port of GTK working on the mac. Maybe when this effort is finally successful then native versions of vpython and other packages will be easier. .. But I also think that the effort required to get everything working under X11 would be too difficult for many beginners." So, is this still true six months later for shipping pyGTK based applications? Or should GTK now be considered a reasonable choice for applications to run under Mac and GNU/Linux? Anyone out there having easy success with pyGTK applications on the Macintosh? And if it works, is it still too bleeding edge to count on? As for Windows, it's long been working OK there as an easy install, right? Still, the installations I see seem to be separate packages, so it is not as easy as with wxWidgets, where I bundle the wxPython & wxWidgets libraries with the Windows application, right? So, I guess my general question is, is pyGTK now an acceptable choice for applications that want to run on Mac, PC, GNU/Linux and the OLPC project? And if it is not, perhaps because of the Mac, is it likely within, say, six months of being an easy install on the Mac? (Software takes a long time to write and debug, so that time frame is reasonable for cross-platform support.) For reference, my most recent google search: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/search?q=mac+pygtk&start=0&scoring=d&hl=en&; turns up this comment: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/2ceb94790c8077c2/4339b2fc9f2fba95?lnk=gst&q=mac+pygtk&rnum=1&hl=en#4339b2fc9f2fba95 "GTK is being ported to Aqua, but the port it is in its early stages." And also: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/2ceb94790c8077c2/20f9a2e4e653f5b9?q=mac+pygtk&lnk=nl&hl=en&; "GTK 2.8 uses an abstraction layer for drawing widgets called "Cairo". Cairo can use OpenGL or Quartz as backends (still experimental). Thus, you can get a hardware-accelerated GUI from PyGTK if you are willing to use an experimental backend in Cairo." In any case, moving forward, for me, in Python, I think the choices are down to Jython + Swing vs. Python + pyGTK (assuming I don't try to write code at a level of abstraction that make the system mostly widget independent :-). --Paul Fernhout _______________________________________________ Edu-sig mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
