When I say "weak" I mean in the area of declarative services. I have used the .Net Enterprise Architect version and it is impressive that you can drag database tables to a form and it will generate your SQL, and they have rev'ed their MSMQ and MTS to support queueing and local transactions but I don't see the sort of intranet framework that J2EE offers. For .Net, these are just utilities - here is something if you need the database but I don't see any sort of framework in terms of intranet development.
Any transactions are just a new rev of MTS. Plus, how do you define a transaction with *internet* web services. I spoke with Don Box at the Microsoft Tech Ed conference in New Orleans and he acknowledged that internet transactions were still to be resolved. One thing he specifically mentioned was "do you want to lock your local database waiting for a response from some calls going over the internet?" Where you say J2EE and .Net are different, I maintain that the difference lies at a higher level. The problem spaces targeted by the two are separate for the most part. Why would you want to use web services for some internal app unless there is some EAI involved? Yet it is a real pain not to use web services if you are making calls out on the internet. Where you say: "Regarding J2EE and .NET being different, well, of course they are, but basically, they're n-tiered transactional servers (some form of 2PC implementation available).", I claim that the core purpose of .Net is an internet server (with transactions, security, etc. still being defined). In my opinion, J2EE is focused on the intranet and will support the internet while .Net is focused on the internet and will support some intranet. I think this difference is a kernel difference and comparisons get silly. It would make more sense to develop UI and Web Services with .Net that interface through to a J2EE middle/back-end using the Java Web Service/.Net interoperability.
From: Juan Pablo Lorandi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Juan Pablo Lorandi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Huge row about J2EE vs .NET Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 11:57:01 -0000 How is .NET weak in the middle and back end? I tried to make a list: Transactional objects _must_ be stateless. DB must be one of: SQL Server, Oracle, Sybase(no DTC 2PC support). But that's about it; and since many developers *prefer* it this way(they rather have everything stateless), I wonder if it is weak. Maybe it's a matter of comfort and experience? More and more I hear that(in the scope of why J2EE failed this paper): A) J2EE and .NET are different. B) Entity Beans and JDO slow down implementations. Regarding J2EE and .NET being different, well, of course they are, but basically, they're n-tiered transactional servers(some form of 2PC implementation available). They support components based on message queues. They manage object lifetime to improve performance. They both have a Web scripting language of choice to create web pages(JSP and ASP). They both run on a VM, which potentially enables both to run on different hardware/OS platforms. They're different, but differences are subtle. The fact that J2EE has been till now easier for me to work with doesn't mean I won't switch to .Net if required, or if it makes my life simpler. Now, the constant noise regarding Entity Beans and JDO doesn't bother me anymore, but I wonder: Do all people disregard complex persistence because: They've had a bad experience in the past? (and if so, aren't they open to change?) They just can't learn Entity Beans? (really? It ain't rocket science) They just don't want to learn a new technology? (kool, mo' money for me). I'd love to hear any comments on this. Juan Pablo Lorandi Chief Software Architect Code Foundry Ltd. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Barberstown, Straffan, Co. Kildare, Ireland. Tel: +353-1-6012050 Fax: +353-1-6012051 Mobile: +353-86-2157900 www.codefoundry.com > -----Original Message----- > From: John Harby [mailto:jmh_inc@;hotmail.com] > Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 7:45 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Huge row about J2EE vs .NET > > > I had the good fortune to work at HP with someone whom you > could call the inventor of web services, Rajiv Gupta (see > link) so I have been well schooled on this argument. > (http://www.hpl.hp.com/news/2001/apr-jun/3gupta.html) > > The primary architecture of web services (as in .Net) is an > *internet* model. Almost anything that is done is an internet > call, this is the point - you discover services over the > internet and invoke them. The traditional J2EE architecture > is that of an *intranet* model, there may > be a browser interface but most calls and transactions are > occuring via > intranet calls. Of course you can lump Java web services into > J2EE but these benchmarks never do that. > > The bottom line to me is that these .Net vs. J2EE comparisons > are useless - it's apples and oranges. I am obviously a big > fan of web services but I really don't see much "enterprise" > yet in .Net. It's typical MS, great tools, good client > development but weak in the middle & > backend. I also think that resolution of 2-phase commit and > security will be > very difficult in web services - HP had a way but it was very > complex and > didn't scale. I think J2EE cores with web service interfaces > make the most > sense which is the way we are going in the JCP. > > Just my .02, > John Harby > > > > >From: Juan Pablo Lorandi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: Juan Pablo Lorandi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: Huge row about J2EE vs .NET > >Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 18:08:47 -0000 > > > >The original article: > > <http://www.middleware-company.com/j2eedotnetbench/> > >http://www.middleware-company.com/j2eedotnetbench/ > > > >The analisys on the benchmark by Rickard Oberg. > > <http://dreambean.com/petstore.html> > >http://dreambean.com/petstore.html > > > >Comments? > > > >Juan Pablo Lorandi > >Chief Software Architect > >Code Foundry Ltd. > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >Barberstown, Straffan, Co. Kildare, Ireland. > >Tel: +353-1-6012050 Fax: +353-1-6012051 > >Mobile: +353-86-2157900 > >www.codefoundry.com <http://www.codefoundry.com/> > > > >Disclaimer: > > > >Opinions expressed are entirely personal and bear no relevance to > >opinions held by my employer. Code Foundry Ltd.'s opinion is that I > >should get back to work. > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get faster connections -- switch to MSN Internet Access! > http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp > > ==========================================================================To unsubscribe, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and include in the body of the message "signoff EJB-INTEREST". For general help, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and include in the body of the message "help".
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