Hank; I'm truly very sorry if my reply to you ended up with your initial
response posted on the reflector; I have a hard time figuring out these mailing
lists and where everything is coming from and going to and it probably was all
my fault (if it somehow got posted with my reply; not sure if it did or not).
Anyway, my apologies to all concerned.
I hope it is all clear to everyone now and that the NCC-1 discussion can
continue further without much distraction.
When I ordered the NCC-1 a little while ago DXE said that it would be a whole
new design that they would be coming out with---not a modification of the NCC-1
per se, FWIW. I decided to try one out this week as I otherwise might be
"waiting for Godot..." (indefinitely).
I also ordered a "Receiver Guard 5000" to put into the noise antenna line which
protects the receiver further while transmitting QRO as I often do; a bit of
extra insurance for my precious K3.
73, Jeff, NH7RO
> From: pfizenma...@q.com
> To: j...@audiosystemsgroup.com
> CC: cathrowinternatio...@hotmail.com
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Anyone using a DXE NCC-1 with K3?
> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2015 12:07:07 -0700
>
>
>
> Jim - I am really PO'ed that a private message to this guy is now on the
> Elecraft reflector - I am even more PO'ed that you chose to infer that I
> don't know what the hell I am doing, and especially on an open reflector .
>
> For your information apparently you do not have the whole story, unless Jeff
> sent you my original message. You do not even know what the box I received
> was doing . And that DXE confirmed the box was unusable as received.
> Further I emailed with the original designer of the box and he also agreed
> that it was unusable as received- and had suggestions for changes that I
> could do to make the amplitude control more usable.The inference was that
> the original design is not being built as originally designed. I do not
> elect to pay $600 for something I am going to start modifying the day I
> receive it . I FULLY understand everything in your first sentence- and went
> over all this at length with DXE.
>
> The "improved model" in fact is to address the issues I found - smaller
> amplitude steps in the two signal channels , and fixing the amplitude
> control so it is not +/- 0.5 dB for 2/3 of its rotation and then the 0.5 to
> 10 dB is in next 1/8 inch of rotation at either end . I will say the
> amplitude variation with phase change is excellent - even better than the 1
> dB they quote - so very little iteration to get to a null
>
> Hank K7HP
>
> Here is what I sent to Jeff .
>
> Jeff - I just went thru a pretty disappointing experience with a NCC1 -- and
> I even bought the vertical active antenna to use to phase against my TX
> antenna.
> The NCC1 has gone back to DXEngineering - I played with it for about a
> week – never accomplished a damn thing with it – finally put a BNC T and 6
> db pads in each arm to the two inputs –and a external step atten in one
> arm. It turned out the amplitude balance control range on the unit I had
> was +/- a half dB for 200 degrees of rotation – so the rest of a 10 dB step
> was compressed into a tiny movement at either end of rotation.Plus it
> appeared to be just attenuating both signals at that point – not really a
> null. So back it went – with my data - they confirmed it was like that –and
> said the “best ones” were maybe 2 to 3 dB for that half dB range I see and
> they would see if they could find one like that – 2 weeks and no find.
>
> They say two things – first it was really designed to work with two
> identical antennas and “hundreds of folks” have no problem when using
> identical antennas .-like their active antennas. Second they have a
> redesigned unit coming out some time in next 6 months to year (undefined)
> that will have smaller attenuator steps and less “expanded” amplitude range
> around the zero point . They suggested a "fix" that I could put a step
> attenuator in series with one side to get the two amplitudes in that 0.5 dB
> range . I don’t have a step atten with 0.5 dB steps smallest is 1 dB - guess
> I could make one with a carbon pot that was small increments .
>
> I emailed with Tom W8JI and he suggested some changes I could make to fix
> the amplitude control – but said he was in middle of a paying job , had not
> looked at that design for years , and would get back to me in a couple weeks
> . I thanked him but don’t bother I am going to just return it .Somehow I don’t
> see paying $600 for something I am going to have to modify. I get the
> impression they have screwed with his original design, I never did get any
> warm feeling they really knew what the hell they were talking about – sent
> them the test setup and what to do and what I was seeing – they confirmed it
> after a little over a week – but never called back or emailed like they said
> they would and there was always some excuse – so yesterday I said just give
> me credit and I will wait and see what the new unit looks like,
>
> Now having said all that , I will say the phase adjustment is VERY good ,
> very little gain change with phase change so the null does not require much
> chasing . I do think it will be a very nice unit with the redesign - and
> will very likely give it another shot when that comes out .
>
> Every thing I am talking about was on 160 meters - I never could get any
> improvement whatsoever over using my home brew 160 meter 24 foot
> circumference loop .
>
> Since your ANC4 is working MAYBE your noise and other antenna are close
> enough the NCC might balance - but ....
>
> I do not like bad mouthing DXE stuff , but I earned my living in RF for 50
> years and and reasonably well equipped with test equipment and they
> confirmed
> my measurements .
>
> Soi there are my 2 cents worth - hopefully you will get responses from guys
> who got "good ones"
> l.
>
>
>
> XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
>
>
> The limitations on what can be achieved with noise cancellation units like
> this is NOT inadequacy of the design of the box. It is entirely
> dependent on the noise sources, their locations, your main antennas, and
> what you can do for sense antennas. You can wait forever for "an
> improved model," or you can study how antennas work and how signal
> cancellation works. I suggest the latter course. You may also benefit
> from studying k9yc.com/RFI-Ham.pdf, which is a tutorial about RF noise
> and how to reduce it, among other things.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
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