I remember that video and it seemed to me, a layman, that the aircraft was in a flared attitude as it would be just before touchdown. It looked to me as if it intentionally landed well past the end of the runway, into the trees. To climb, isn't a large increase in thrust necessary? _______________________________________ _____________________________________________ Ralph McDiarmid | Schneider Electric | Renewable Energies Business | CANADA |
From: "Pettit, Ghery" <ghery.pet...@intel.com> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: 03/01/2010 04:39 PM Subject: Re: [PSES] Toyota -- Comment on Software and Electronics for Safety ________________________________ This has been well discussed in aviation circles. The fly by wire systems in the Airbus will not allow the pilots direct control. The pilot tells the computer what he wants to do and the flight rules programmed into the computer limit the aircraft to a certain performance envelope. In the Paris incident the pilots tried to exceed the performance envelope to clear the trees and the computer wouldn't let them. I've seen video of the crash. Not good. Ghery S. Pettit From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org <mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> ] On Behalf Of John M Woodgate Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 4:26 PM To: EMC-PSTC Subject: Re: [PSES] Toyota -- Comment on Software and Electronics for Safety In message <d500012385dca64883637ab4ccf491e30134c...@ms-cda-02.advanced-input.com>, "McInturff, Gary" <gary.mcintu...@esterline.com> writes >They got to the end of the pass saw the trees and tried to pull up, but >the software looked at the flight envelope and said no because the low >airspeed meant that they were at a critical point on the flight >envelope and raising the nose at that speed would put it too close to >the stall point of the aircraft. I certainly wasn't involved in the >crash investigation rather having just read this is some journal >somewhere - so I certainly could have this wrong - but like I said - as >I understand it. Even so, if it is true, it shows that the software just wasn't intelligent, or, more likely, informed enough to cope with the situation. It didn't know about the trees, but if it did know, it should have allowed a low-angle climb to clear them. It must be a general principle that if a quasi-intelligent system does not know a key fact, it may implement a dangerous sequence of actions. What you don't know will kill you. -- This is my travelling signature, adding no superfluous mass. John M Woodgate - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc <http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc> Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ <http://www.ieee-pses.org/> Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html <http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html <http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html> For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <emcp...@socal.rr.com> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc <http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc> Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ <http://www.ieee-pses.org/> Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html <http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html <http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html> For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <emcp...@socal.rr.com> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com> ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for SPAM content and Viruses by the MessageL abs Email Security System. ________________________________________________________________________ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <emcp...@socal.rr.com> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com>
