Michael asked if it's 'our' fault for pressuring labs to be cheaper and faster. I say not. I recon it's down to the size and structure most labs seem to have have evolved to.
I (now reluctantly) use a once independent, mid-sized lab that was acquired by a large multinational company. Over the course of a few years they now have Directors and Managing Directors and Executive Management who aren't even on this site, marketing departments, HR departments, a services organisation that looks after the finance and invoicing, and they and pay this fee and that royalty to the central group and for certificates and logo usage rights. They have Account Managers and Business Development Managers and Business Line Managers and Project Managers and Project Engineers and Department Managers and PA's and administrators. They even have a small handful of Test Engineers, but we don't hear much about them.
Nope, that's why labs are cutting corners, shaving the core services while the 'dead wood' continues to accumulate.
It's the way of the world today it seems with the end consumer working ever harder to support it.
Rant over!
Tony
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2014 at 9:52 AM
From: "Michael Derby" <micha...@acbcert.com>
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Brick power supplies and test errors (two topics)
From: "Michael Derby" <micha...@acbcert.com>
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Brick power supplies and test errors (two topics)
At least they were honest! Every lab has to have a first time that they
do each test, otherwise progress will never be made.
I hope I'm never in a role where I'm always doing things that I already know
how to do. :-)
I personally do not have any trouble in a lab needing to learn new things.
That said, if the test was on the lab's scope of accreditation, they should
already have researched and proved that they know how to do it.
It does amaze me when I see test labs issue reports for a test (which is on
their accreditation scope) and they did not use the correct test equipment.
I ask them why and they tell me they don't have the correct equipment.
Hmm, I'm sure I remember that being an important aspect of gaining
accreditation.
As Dennis said, we see too many test reports, apparently accredited, where
the standard was not understood or correctly applied.
It seems the labs are under a lot of pressure to be cheaper and faster. Is
that our fault, as consumers?
My concern is that compliance testing is viewed as an unwanted rubber-stamp
hurdle, not as the technical study and research in engineering that it
should be. It also explains why many labs struggle to find a good engineer
who is happy to stay in the test lab.
Michael.
Michael Derby
Senior Regulatory Engineer
Director
ACB Europe
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com]
Sent: 17 December 2014 21:36
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Brick power supplies and test errors (two topics)
Pathos and tragedy, with a bit of comedy, in the EMC lab. Once had the sales
manager for a major lab say "we have never done that test but would give you
a good deal so we could get experience..."
Brian
From: Ed Price [mailto:edpr...@cox.net]
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2014 1:29 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Brick power supplies and test errors (two topics)
Ghery:
I found that business conditions have created large labs which strive to
provide one-stop compliance services, and that this concept is subject to
corruption by enthusiasm. By that, I mean that the labs often have a little
subsection which is tasked with doing nothing but expanding the range of
accreditations; these are the chaps who paper entire hallways with
certificates of accreditation, allowing you to take comfort that if you ever
needed a machine safety certificate for Kleptostan, you were already in the
right place. A certain disconnect exists between these certificate
harvesters (think marketing) and the other part of the lab (think
engineering) which actually has to do that rare and idiosyncratic test.
Ed Price
WB6WSN
Chula Vista, CA USA
From: Pettit, Ghery [mailto:ghery.pet...@intel.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2014 10:00 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Brick power supplies and test errors (two topics)
I brought up some serious problems with accredited labs at the ASC C63
meetings in Mesa last month. One accrediting body seems interested in
dealing with the issue, the others not so much. It's so much fun to go into
a lab that isn't properly equipped to perform tests listed on its Scope of
Accreditation.
Ghery S. Pettit
From: Grasso, Charles [mailto:charles.gra...@echostar.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2014 9:57 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Brick power supplies and test errors (two topics)
It would appear that the best efforts of lab accreditations are not living
up to expectations?
Or am I expecting too much?
Best Regards
Charles Grasso
Compliance Engineer
Echostar Communications
(w) 303-706-5467
(c) 303-204-2974
(t) 3032042...@vtext.com
(e) charles.gra...@echostar.com
(e2) chasgra...@gmail.com
-
----------------------------------------------------------------
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All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.
Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
For help, send mail to the list administrators:
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do each test, otherwise progress will never be made.
I hope I'm never in a role where I'm always doing things that I already know
how to do. :-)
I personally do not have any trouble in a lab needing to learn new things.
That said, if the test was on the lab's scope of accreditation, they should
already have researched and proved that they know how to do it.
It does amaze me when I see test labs issue reports for a test (which is on
their accreditation scope) and they did not use the correct test equipment.
I ask them why and they tell me they don't have the correct equipment.
Hmm, I'm sure I remember that being an important aspect of gaining
accreditation.
As Dennis said, we see too many test reports, apparently accredited, where
the standard was not understood or correctly applied.
It seems the labs are under a lot of pressure to be cheaper and faster. Is
that our fault, as consumers?
My concern is that compliance testing is viewed as an unwanted rubber-stamp
hurdle, not as the technical study and research in engineering that it
should be. It also explains why many labs struggle to find a good engineer
who is happy to stay in the test lab.
Michael.
Michael Derby
Senior Regulatory Engineer
Director
ACB Europe
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com]
Sent: 17 December 2014 21:36
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Brick power supplies and test errors (two topics)
Pathos and tragedy, with a bit of comedy, in the EMC lab. Once had the sales
manager for a major lab say "we have never done that test but would give you
a good deal so we could get experience..."
Brian
From: Ed Price [mailto:edpr...@cox.net]
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2014 1:29 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Brick power supplies and test errors (two topics)
Ghery:
I found that business conditions have created large labs which strive to
provide one-stop compliance services, and that this concept is subject to
corruption by enthusiasm. By that, I mean that the labs often have a little
subsection which is tasked with doing nothing but expanding the range of
accreditations; these are the chaps who paper entire hallways with
certificates of accreditation, allowing you to take comfort that if you ever
needed a machine safety certificate for Kleptostan, you were already in the
right place. A certain disconnect exists between these certificate
harvesters (think marketing) and the other part of the lab (think
engineering) which actually has to do that rare and idiosyncratic test.
Ed Price
WB6WSN
Chula Vista, CA USA
From: Pettit, Ghery [mailto:ghery.pet...@intel.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2014 10:00 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Brick power supplies and test errors (two topics)
I brought up some serious problems with accredited labs at the ASC C63
meetings in Mesa last month. One accrediting body seems interested in
dealing with the issue, the others not so much. It's so much fun to go into
a lab that isn't properly equipped to perform tests listed on its Scope of
Accreditation.
Ghery S. Pettit
From: Grasso, Charles [mailto:charles.gra...@echostar.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2014 9:57 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Brick power supplies and test errors (two topics)
It would appear that the best efforts of lab accreditations are not living
up to expectations?
Or am I expecting too much?
Best Regards
Charles Grasso
Compliance Engineer
Echostar Communications
(w) 303-706-5467
(c) 303-204-2974
(t) 3032042...@vtext.com
(e) charles.gra...@echostar.com
(e2) chasgra...@gmail.com
-
----------------------------------------------------------------
This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to
<emc-p...@ieee.org>
All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
well-used formats), large files, etc.
Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org>
Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org>
For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org>
David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
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This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org>
All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.
Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
For help, send mail to the list administrators:
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Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org>
For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org>
David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------
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All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.
Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
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David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com>
