Doug, Mike, Dave, and all, thank you for the information. Though most of you have already known this and it seems like basic information, this is exactly the kind of things a test lab might overlook and be doing wrong for years, or at least not in the most efficient way. I love this email group.
I never would have thought about the phase shift in a 3 phase configuration. I'll have to see if our test equipment compensates for that or if the software has to do it. If I had thought of it I would have assumed the test equipment would compensate for the phase shift but then again you know what happens to the man who assumes. It makes sense that you only have to test at one phase angle between N and PE if you have a grounded neutral, but again, I would have never thought of it. I will have to adjust our test software to take advantage of this fact. Thanks again to all. The Other Brian From: Doug Powell [mailto:doug...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 5:18 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Surge Testing 3 phase Equipment I agree, I should have been more specific on phase combinations. For direct injected surge tests I am not aware of any type that requires more than any two conductors simultaneously. The exception that immediately comes to mind is the capacitive clamp injection for EFT Burst. Doug On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 2:11 PM, Schaefer, David <dschae...@tuvam.com<mailto:dschae...@tuvam.com>> wrote: Brian, -4-5 states: When testing line-to-ground, the lines are tested individually in sequence, if there is no other specification. So no need to do combos like L1+L2 to PE, or L1+L2+L3 to PE, etc. 3rd Edition also allows you to ignore phase angle on the neutral conductor, if there is no voltage between neutral and PE. This would reduce testing from 40 transients to 10. Don't forget the phase shift either! Some off the shelf software will automate the test but not use the correct phase angle for tests other than L1 or N to PE. Thanks, David Schaefer EMC Chief Technical Advisor TÜV SÜD America Inc Office: 651 638 0251<tel:651%20638%200251> Cell: 612 578 6038<tel:612%20578%206038> Fax: 651 638 0285<tel:651%20638%200285> From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com<mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com>] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 11:28 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] Surge Testing 3 phase Equipment Also keep in mind that you have to test at 500V, 1000V (line to line), and 2000V (line to PE) which makes the test take something like 960 minutes (at least two full shifts). I assume if the 3 phase device that is to be tested does not use the Neutral then those coupling modes can be eliminated, which will save some time. Thanks for the input. I was hoping I could just skip the combination modes. Thanks to all. The Other Brian From: Alexandru Guidea [mailto:alexandru.gui...@cae.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 11:59 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] Surge Testing 3 phase Equipment For a 3 phase + N EUT, testing to EN 61000-4-5 will require L1-L2, L1-L3, L2-L3, L1-N, L2-N, L3-N, L1-PE, L2-PE, L3-PE, N-PE coupling. There are 10 coupling modes, tested each at 4 phase angles. For 10 alternate discharges (5+ and 5-) and 60 s repetition time, it will take a bit over 400 minutes to complete the test, assuming the sequence of the tests is switched automatically and no operator intervention will add delays. For compliance testing, there is no need for other coupling modes. Alexandru Guidea CAE Inc. From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com] Sent: February-17-15 11:20 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [PSES] Surge Testing 3 phase Equipment We perform Surge Immunity test according to IEC/EN 61000-4-5. Family and Generic standards call out voltage levels for "Line to Line" and "Line to Earth". So for single phase electrical equipment we perform surge test on the following coupling modes which can take between 1-4 hours to perform depending on the time between pulses, number of phase angles tested, and number of voltage levels tested: L1-N L1-PE N-PE We are looking to perform the Surge test on a 3 phase device (first time for our corporate lab). However, the possible coupling choices appear to be almost endless (18 additional modes). To test all coupling modes available from our test equipment, this test could take an entire week to perform. I'm guessing we can reduce the number of coupling paths. What do most other labs do? What would you do? For instances; Line to Line L1-L2 L1-L3 L2-L3 L1-N L2-N L3-N Line to Earth L1-PE L2-PE L3-PE N-PE Is the above adequate or do I also have to test these Line to Earth combinations, such as: L1+L2-PE L2+L3-PE L1+L3-PE L1+N-PE L2+N-PE L3+N-PE L1+L2+L3-PE L1+L2+N-PE L1+L3+N-PE L2+L3+N-PE L1+L2+L3+N-PE Pros, Cons, Suggestions, opinions, etc.?? Thanks to all. The Other Brian ________________________________ LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you. - - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 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To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org<mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org<mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com<mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> -- Douglas E Powell doug...@gmail.com<mailto:doug...@gmail.com> Skype: doug.powell52 http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01 - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 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