Hello Scott - What Energy Star/DoE standards are you referring to? Best Regards Charles Grasso Compliance Engineer Echostar Communications (w) 303-706-5467 (c) 303-204-2974 (t) 3032042...@vtext.com (e) charles.gra...@echostar.com (e2) chasgra...@gmail.com
From: Scott Aldous [mailto:00000220f70c299a-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org] Sent: Friday, March 13, 2015 9:06 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] USB Mains Outlet sockets Hi John, Interesting topic. Yes, these are offered in the US as well. Here's one example: http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1693478.pdf According to the datasheet, this product is UL Listed to UL 498 and UL 1310. The online cert directory has this under UL file number E2186. The UL category for this file is RTRT, which typically includes UL 498 only. UL 1310 is the standard for class 2 power supplies. For permanently connected units, the requirement for a disconnect device is that the instruction manual indicate that a disconnect device shall be incorporated in the field wiring - clause 71.2g). I imagine the branch circuit breaker is considered acceptable as a disconnect device in this case. I didn't take the time to search further so don't know if certification to UL 1310 is common for this type of product. If someone at UL judged that it was appropriate, then it well may be since I would guess that most receptacles (if not all) for the US market are going to have UL Listing to meet NEC requirements. Maybe there has been internal discussion at UL regarding whether UL 60950-1 is applicable - I don't know. For energy efficiency, the datasheet makes no reference to efficiency requirements, but does include some power consumption ratings. The no load power consumption stated does not meet guidelines from Energy Star or the US DOE. It stands to reason that these devices should meet all requirements applicable to traditional power supplies. I would think that these would have even more impact on energy consumption since they will likely almost never be disconnected from power. The current regulations were not written with this type of product in mind, so I would guess that they might slip under the radar until formal judgments start to emerge. On the restriction on insulation resistance testing, my guess is that the product that has this restriction may have MOVs or other transient suppression device that wouldn't be happy with a high voltage test. The datasheet I linked to above indicates 2kV dielectric withstand, so maybe it doesn't have the same issue. If there is an installation code in the UK that requires compatibility with regular insulation resistance testing, then I would think these types of products need to be able to withstand such testing or have a means to disconnect to allow the test to be run. Whether ITE, it's hard to imagine how these products could be considered exempt from CE marking. I am curious to know what others have to say. On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 6:50 AM, Pearson, John <john.pear...@polycom.com<mailto:john.pear...@polycom.com>> wrote: Here is a Friday discussion topic for you guys. In the UK we are seeing a plethora of aftermarket 250v AC mains outlet sockets which are supplied for installation, it seems by the homeowner, (this has been a traditional practice over here. In the US I understand that this happens less). The advantage of these sockets is that they also give you 2 USB charging ports in the wall as well as two socket outlets. I see large distributors (Screwfix, Amazon.co.uk<http://Amazon.co.uk> and Ebuyer for e.g.) selling several https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=lap+mains+socket&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-GB:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&gfe_rd=cr&ei=edoCVauNDquD8Qekq4HgBQ&gws_rd=ssl#rls=com.microsoft:en-GB:IE-Address&tbm=shop&q=usb+mains+power+socket+outlet . Look out for an explosion of these items is my suspicion as the idea of getting rid of plug in USB chargers is very appealing, even to me! Questions from the compliance side Energy Efficiency Single rail PSU’s are subject to mandatory Energy Efficiency marking and performance. All the units I have seen thus far do not mark or declare any performance figures. The PSU being wired into the mains does not to my mind preclude these products from compliance with the Eco-design Directive and 278/2009 specifically, or am I missing something? Safety of USB port All of the devices I have seen are stamped with EN 60950-1 on the back thus appear to be purporting compliance this std. Not seen any DoC’s. I do not understand how they can meet the Disconnect Device requirements of CL 3.4 by design unless the mains switches are the disconnect device. I see however that the switches only turn off the mains to the traditional BS1363 sockets. Any thoughts? Certification Several of these items claim ASTA certification. I wonder what ASTA certified them to. I suspect not EN 60950-1. Is that not misleading? Insulation test At least one of these devices states “Do not Megger” the device. Apparently the USB charge circuitry cannot stand high voltage and would likely or possibly fail. As it is recommend in the UK that home wiring be regularly checked for insulation issues is this product “fit for purpose” ? CE marking Several of these are not CE marked. See this http://www.amazon.co.uk/Connekt-Gear-Power-Socket-Charging-white/dp/B00KO1KDN4 Rather bizarrely one supplier with a seemingly non CE marked product issued this http://www.groupgear.co.uk/catalogue/27-2000-Counterfeit-warning.pdf Does outlet sockets require CE marking by the placer on the market and if they also incorporate a PSU for charging ITE product doesn’t it become an ITE product itself subject to EMCD and LVD and thus require CE marking for that purpose also? All this said it seems that they are getting great reviews but likely from the user benefit rather than the above Look forward to interesting responses. John - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org<mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org<mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com<mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> -- Scott Aldous Compliance Engineer Google 650-253-1994 scottald...@google.com<mailto:scottald...@google.com> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org<mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org<mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com<mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
