I fully agree with Doug on the need for Class B compliance (certainly on emissions) because the use of “industrial” equipment (especially motorised) in residential and “light commercial” premises can be a notably source of interference to equipment in surrounding rooms as most of that will be Class B immunity, and thus quite a bit more susceptible than any Class A immunity stuff – electrically powered lifts have been highlighted as a notable source of such interference in these locations, and any water-handling system could be just as bad/worse because of its more distributed nature throughout a building.
John Allen W.London, UK From: Doug Nix [mailto:d...@ieee.org] Sent: 19 November 2015 16:28 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] 3 phase 408V in EU and Emissions Classification Carl, An apartment complex is a shared low-voltage distribution network, and would be viewed as Class B. The concern is that conducted emissions from one user will affect equipment in another user’s premises, since there is no attenuation by the substation equipment and the intervening MV distribution network as would occur between two large factories, for example. So your gear will definitely need to meet Class B limits, or only be installed by special permission of the local authority having jurisdiction. Doug Nix d...@ieee.org +1 (519) 729-5704 On 19-Nov-15, at 11:24, Carl Newton <emcl...@gmail.com> wrote: Doug, Excellent response. So if I'm understanding you correctly, the 408 V ac supplied to an apartment complex can be via the low-voltage public AC mains. Thanks very much, Carl On Thu, 19 Nov 2015 11:13:00 -0500, Douglas Nix <d...@mac.com> wrote: Carl, Standard AC mains voltage in the EU is 400V +10%, -5%, 3P. This accommodates everything from 380 V nominal legacy systems through 440 V nominal legacy systems. The same is done for 1P systems: 230V +10%, -5%, so the 408 V nominal that your customer is asking for is accommodated within the standard mains voltages. None of this has bearing on the EMC Class used for the equipment. The Generic EMC Standards, IEC 61000-6-1, -2, -3, -4 deal with the specific emissions and immunity requirements for equipment in these classes where no product family standard exists. Class A environments are “Industrial”, as defined by the way power is supplied to the facility. Class B is “Commercial / Residential”. Reading from EN 55011 (CISPR 11): 4.2 Division into classes Class A equipment is equipment suitable for use in all establishments other than domestic and those directly connected to a low voltage power supply network which supplies buildings used for domestic purposes. Class A equipment shall meet class A limits. NOTE 1 Operation of equipment which does not meet the class A limits but does not result in unacceptable degradation of radio services may be sanctioned on a case-by-case basis by the competent national authority. NOTE 2 Aithough class A limits have been derived for industrial and commercial establishments, administrations may allow, with whatever additional measures are necessary, the installation and use of class A ISM equipment in a domestic establishment or in an establishment connected directly to domestic electricity power supplies. Class B equipment is equipment suitable for use in domestic establishments and in establishments directly connected to a low voltage power supply network which supplies buildings used for domestic purposes. Class B equipment shall meet class B limits. The key words are: “...other than domestic and those directly connected to a low voltage power supply network which supplies buildings used for domestic purposes.” Industrial establishments have a direct connection to the medium voltage transmission grid, i.e. a private substation, that supplies power to that establishment only. This is a Class A environment. If the equipment is connected to a shared low-voltage network, i.e. where power distribution from a single substation occurs at 1 kVac / 1500 Vdc or less, and this distribution network supplies a number of independent users, then it is a commercial/residential application, therefore a Class B environment. In theory, Class A equipment can be installed in Class B environment by special permission of the local authority. Doug Nix d...@mac.com +1 (519) 729-5704 On 19-Nov-15, at 10:43, Carl Newton <emcl...@gmail.com> wrote: Group, Please forgive my ignorance, but I would appreciate some education concerning 3 phase power in the EU generally. I'm looking at a water handling system that is to employ 408 V ac, 3 phase in the EU. It would be used with HVAC systems and I'm told that it can be used in apartment complexes, among other types. So I'm being told that for that reason it may be attached to the public AC mains, which means that it should be Class B. Can somebody here explain whether any of the various EU nations can provide 408 3 phase from the public AC mains? Or am I looking at a Class A device? Same for Australia. Thanks very much, Carl -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 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