Ken
Whilst I understand what you say, bear in mind that the majority of facility owners (and ESPECIALLY consumers and most Small-to-Medium-Enterprises) have no real (if ANY) understanding of any EMC problems with equipment which they own - let alone how to deal with them - and that costs them a lot of hard cash in trying to find out what is happening and how to fix it (and IF that is possible). Far better to have basic legal emission AND immunity requirements in-place to at least reduce the likelihood of such situations occurring. John E Allen W. London, UK From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent: 29 September 2016 22:28 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] [RFI] Part 15 isn't enough.. Saying that Part 15 limits are not low enough has nothing to do with the imposition of immunity requirements. Regardless of how high or low Part 15 limits might be, it has no impact on any suggested or imposed susceptibility/immunity limits. Part 15 limits protect radio receivers, the immunity requirements protect non-antenna connected equipment from intentional transmissions (meaning 61000-4-3 and 610004-6, not the various transient non-frequency domain requirements). Ghery Pettit made the salient point: the Part 15 limits provide a degree of protection such that if interference occurs, it is between two equipments operated in the same area, under the same ownership, and therefore the problem is controllable without causing problems between different entities, one of which owns the culprit, and the other of which owns the victim. The limits are not there to protect a culprit/victim pair jammed up side-by-side. If thats what you want, you are looking at MIL-STD-461, as someone else pointed out. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 _____ From: john Allen <john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk> Reply-To: john Allen <john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2016 21:27:14 +0100 To: <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] [RFI] Part 15 isn't enough.. Almost sounds like a call for N. America to encompass our equivalent immunity requirements (often denigrated - even with Europe, but they generally do seem to work!) J John E Allen W. London, UK -----Original Message----- From: Ghery S. Pettit [mailto:n6...@comcast.net] Sent: 29 September 2016 21:14 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] [RFI] Part 15 isn't enough.. Preventing harmful interference in all cases is a mighty tough call. How low do you need to limit emissions? How high a signal must the product be immune to? The limits in Part 15 provide a reasonable level of protection, assuming the potential victim is far enough away. Co-located devices may need more suppression. Ghery S. Pettit, NCE -----Original Message----- From: Cortland Richmond [mailto:k...@earthlink.net <mailto:k...@earthlink.net> <mailto:k...@earthlink.net> ] Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 12:29 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] [RFI] Part 15 isn't enough.. On 9/29/2016 2:07 PM, Ken Javor wrote: > I missed out on the prologue and am curious as why Part 15 limits > aren't low enough. Not low enough for what? Actually preventing harmful interference. Requiring a warranty in the purchase contract would put manufacturers on notice that they're actually expected to do that -- and eat the cost of fixing things if they don't. § 15.5 General conditions of operation. (b) Operation of an intentional, unintentional, or incidental radiator is subject to the conditions that no harmful interference is caused and that interference must be accepted that may be caused by the operation of an authorized radio station, by another intentional or unintentional radiator, by industrial, scientific and medical (ISM) equipment, or by an incidental radiator. § 15.15 General technical requirements. (c) Parties responsible for equipment compliance should note that the limits specified in this part will not prevent harmful interference under all circumstances. Since the operators of part 15 devices are required to cease operation should harmful interference occur to authorized users of the radio frequency spectrum, the parties responsible for equipment compliance are encouraged to employ the minimum field strength necessary for communications, to provide greater attenuation of unwanted emissions than required by these regulations, and to advise the user as to how to resolve harmful interference problems (for example, see §15.105(b)). [and (maybe -- good luck)] § 15.17 Susceptibility to interference. (a) Parties responsible for equipment compliance are advised to consider the proximity and the high power of non-Government licensed radio stations, such as broadcast, amateur, land mobile,and non-geostationary mobile satellite feeder link earth stations, and of U.S. Government radio stations, which could include high-powered radar systems, when choosing operating frequencies during the design of their equipment so as to reduce the susceptibility for receiving harmful interference. ... Cortland - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 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To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org <mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> <mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html <http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html> <http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ <http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/> <http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/> can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ <http://www.ieee-pses.org/> <http://www.ieee-pses.org/> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html <http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html> <http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html> For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org <mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org> <mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org <mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org> <mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org> > For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org <mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> <mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com <mailto:dhe...@gmail.com> <mailto:dhe...@gmail.com> > - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
