Gert My comment about major manufacturers was partially based on the appearance of a Sony TV on the apartmenttherapy website, as linked by Cortland, which appeared to be unduly susceptible to external interference and you would not expect that from a large manufacturer of that stature - and that made me speculate as to which other such company's products have the same issues?
John E Allen W. London, UK -----Original Message----- From: ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen [mailto:g.grem...@cetest.nl] Sent: 01 October 2016 10:57 To: John Allen; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: [PSES] [RFI] Part 15 isn't enough.. John Allen wrote: >That's probably why the products from some major multinationals (as mentioned in the previously linked >website) could not be sold elsewhere in the major World markets without suitable compliance and >verification, and yet can be sold in the US. I was wondering if that is really the case ? Can our US collegues witness that product of reputable manufacturers are not wearing the CE marking in the US. ?? Regards, Ing. Gert Gremmen Approvals manager ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- + ce marking of electrical/electronic equipment Independent Consultancy + Services Compliance Testing and Design for CE marking according to EC-directives: - Electro Magnetic Compatibility 2004/108/EC - Electrical Safety 2006/95/EC - Medical Devices 93/42/EC - Radio & Telecommunication Terminal Equipment 99/5/EC + Improvement of Product Quality and Reliability testing Education Web: www.cetest.nl (English) Phone : +31 10 415 24 26 ------------------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail and any attachments thereto may contain information that is confidential and/or protected by intellectual property rights and are intended for the sole use of the recipient(s) named above. Any use of the information contained herein (including, but not limited to, total or partial reproduction, communication or distribution in any form) by persons other than the designated recipient(s) is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender either by telephone or by e-mail and delete the material from any computer. Thank you for your co-operation. From: John Allen [mailto:john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk] Sent: Friday 30 September 2016 15:31 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] [RFI] Part 15 isn't enough.. Dieter Yes, that's what the words state, and have done for years - but, with no clear requirements or guidelines as to the technical requirements (tests, limits, pass/fail conditions etc.) or the actual need to do verification, then many/most suppliers appear to me to ignore those words! I think the same was true in Europe during the period after the original EMC Directive (76/889/EEC) was published but before the CE marking requirement version (89/336/EC) came out and required "proof" of compliance in the form of test reports, tech files and the CE marking - after that, things gradually began to change! The big problem in 1989, and for some years after, was the almost total lack of standards against which to do the tests and assessments on non-military products. However, some 25+ years later, the same cannot be said as there are many international, and even US trade-body, standards which could almost immediately be used as the basis for realistic sets of requirements to be formulated. Many multi-national and US companies already do that as normal development practice, but in the current US legislative environment they can then "cost cut" for the US market by either not doing that testing on US-market specific products, or "cost reducing" their internationally-sold products for sale in that market. That's probably why the products from some major multinationals (as mentioned in the previously linked website) could not be sold elsewhere in the major World markets without suitable compliance and verification, and yet can be sold in the US. John E Allen W. London, UK From: Paasche, Dieter [mailto:dieter.paas...@christiedigital.com] Sent: 30 September 2016 13:59 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] [RFI] Part 15 isn't enough.. In general I believe that changing part 15 will be very difficult since it is a legal (political) document and would need congress approval for changes. Different that than in the EU where you have directives and harmonized standards somehow separately. Also the US is part of international committees and heavily participates on emissions and immunity standards. However implementation and enforcing is always difficult. And finally, isn't FCC indirectly stating that immunity has to be met as well? FCC Part 15.5 (b) §15.5 General conditions of operation. (a) Persons operating intentional or unintentional radiators shall not be deemed to have any vested or recognizable right to continued use of any given frequency by virtue of prior registration or certification of equipment, or, for power line carrier systems, on the basis of prior notification of use pursuant to §90.35(g) of this chapter. (b) Operation of an intentional, unintentional, or incidental radiator is subject to the conditions that no harmful interference is caused and that interference must be accepted that may be caused by the operation of an authorized radio station, by another intentional or unintentional radiator, by industrial, scientific and medical (ISM) equipment, or by an incidental radiator. (c) The operator of a radio frequency device shall be required to cease operating the device upon notification by a Commission representative that the device is causing harmful interference. Operation shall not resume until the condition causing the harmful interference has been corrected. (d) Intentional radiators that produce Class B emissions (damped wave) are prohibited. Sincerely, Dieter Paasche ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
