No one knows about the eeseal. It's a possible EMI fix. I don't know were the 1000 V hipot test came from; I supposed it was insulation resistance/creepage-based. The point is, it is a dc requirement and the device will never see 1000 Vdc elsewhere, therefore it seems like an inappropriate requirement to place on a cap as a WVDC rating, and I don't see why it should be placed on an EMI filter external to the EUT.
Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 > From: Pat Lawler <plawl...@gmail.com> > Reply-To: Pat Lawler <plawl...@gmail.com> > Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 07:07:42 -0700 > To: <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> > Subject: Re: [PSES] X & Y Cap rating due to hipot test > > Hi Ken, > > In your original post, you mentioned this was a '1000 V insulation > resistance test'. > > When I hear about insulation resistance testing, I think about leakage > currents. For this reason, I think the eeseal capacitor assembly > should be installed during test. > I don't know why the test level is 1000 V. Maybe the spec writer > simply chose the most stringent Test Condition in MIL-STD-202-302 > (Level C) because it looked good. If the customer knew about the > eeseal parts during writing of the product spec, maybe they saw a > '1000 V' rating somewhere in the component spec, and simply copied it. > > Pat Lawler > On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 7:53 PM Ken Javor <ken.ja...@emccompliance.com> wrote: >> >> Military procurement. They require 1000 volts hipot on this brush 28 Vdc >> motor. No electronics in motor. My bottom line is can I make a good case for >> not hipot testing the eeseal insert caps. Caps fail open, right? If some >> sort of transient took out the caps, the motor would still work if the caps >> were obliterated. >> >> Ken Javor >> Phone: (256) 650-5261 >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Richard Nute <ri...@ieee.org> >> Reply-To: <ri...@ieee.org> >> Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 15:44:02 -0700 >> To: 'Ken Javor' <ken.ja...@emccompliance.com>, <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> >> Subject: RE: [PSES] X & Y Cap rating due to hipot test >> >> >> Hi Ken: >> >> For safety purposes (protection against electric shock), insulation between >> the mains and the human body must not only withstand the mains voltage, but >> also must withstand transient voltages on the mains. These transients are >> normal and are generated by normal load switching and by lightning. The >> hi-pot test verifies that the insulation, both solid and air (clearance), >> will withstand the transient voltages and thereby provide protection against >> electric shock (from the mains). >> >> Your 28 volts dc is below the electric shock threshold for dc, which is taken >> as 60 volts in some safety standards and lower in other safety standards. >> So, from a safety point of view, we don¹t care whether the insulation will >> withstand transient voltages, e.g., brush noise. The insulation can fail, >> but no electric shock is likely. In the safety field, we would say that the >> 28-volt insulation is functional, and is not a safeguard. >> >> For safety, no hi-pot testing is required. You may want to do the hi-pot >> test for functional purposes. And, you can use any caps you desire. The >> traditional hi-pot test voltage for mains circuits is twice rated plus 1000 >> rms. For a 28-volt circuit, you can choose any test voltage that, to you, >> seems reasonable. >> >> Good luck! >> Rich >> >> >> >> >> From: Ken Javor <ken.ja...@emccompliance.com> >> Sent: Monday, August 13, 2018 1:22 PM >> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG >> Subject: Re: [PSES] X & Y Cap rating due to hipot test >> >> More on this topic. >> >> The basic question is, ³what is the prupose of hipot testing?² >> >> The context is a 28 Vdc brush motor that needs some caps to filter brush >> noise. Looking at some quell/eeseal chip caps on an insertable template that >> fits in the connector shell. I contend that could be inserted after hipot >> testing, so that the insert caps don¹t have to be rated to 1000 volts. The >> 1000 volt rating limits the selection of available caps. >> >> As I understand it, hipot testing ensures safety by verifying sufficient >> separation between different conductors. Why would it be necessary to apply >> a hipot test to a connector insert? >> >> Thank you, >> >> Ken Javor >> Phone: (256) 650-5261 >> >> ________________________________ >> >> From: Ken Javor <ken.ja...@emccompliance.com> >> Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 15:13:23 -0500 >> To: "doug...@gmail.com" <doug...@gmail.com>, <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> >> Conversation: [PSES] X & Y Cap rating due to hipot test >> Subject: Re: [PSES] X & Y Cap rating due to hipot test >> >> Thank you, >> >> Ken Javor >> Phone: (256) 650-5261 >> >> ________________________________ >> >> From: Doug Powell <doug...@gmail.com> >> Reply-To: Doug Powell <doug...@gmail.com> >> Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 13:41:40 -0600 >> To: <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> >> Subject: Re: [PSES] X & Y Cap rating due to hipot test >> >> >> Ken, >> >> Yes and No, the line to line "X" caps will not see hipot potentials since you >> should tie lines and neutral together during the test. Line to earth "Y² >> caps will see the entire voltage during the test. This assumes of course you >> have manually closed any circuit breakers, contractors or switches that may >> otherwise isolate the equipment internals. >> >> All the best, Doug >> >> -- >> >> Douglas E Powell >> doug...@gmail.com >> https://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01 >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my Android on the Verizon 4G LTE Network >> >> >> From: ken.ja...@emccompliance.com >> Sent: August 10, 2018 12:44 PM >> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG >> Reply-to: ken.ja...@emccompliance.com >> Subject: [PSES] X & Y Cap rating due to hipot test >> >> >> Does a 1000 V insulation resistance test requirement force line-connected >> caps to the high pot potential? >> >> Thank you, >> >> Ken Javor >> Phone: (256) 650-5261 <tel:(256)6505261> >> - >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc >> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to >> <emc-p...@ieee.org> >> >> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: >> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html >> >> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at >> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used >> formats), large files, etc. >> >> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ >> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to >> unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> >> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html >> >> For help, send mail to the list administrators: >> Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> >> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> >> >> For policy questions, send mail to: >> Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> >> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> >> - >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc >> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to >> <emc-p...@ieee.org> >> >> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: >> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html >> >> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at >> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used >> formats), large files, etc. >> >> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ >> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to >> unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> >> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html >> >> For help, send mail to the list administrators: >> Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> >> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> >> >> For policy questions, send mail to: >> Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> >> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> >> - >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc >> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to >> <emc-p...@ieee.org> >> >> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: >> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html >> >> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at >> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used >> formats), large files, etc. >> >> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ >> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to >> unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> >> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html >> >> For help, send mail to the list administrators: >> Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> >> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> >> >> For policy questions, send mail to: >> Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> >> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> >> >> - >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc >> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to >> <emc-p...@ieee.org> >> >> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: >> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html >> >> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at >> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used >> formats), large files, etc. >> >> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ >> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to >> unsubscribe) >> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html >> >> For help, send mail to the list administrators: >> Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> >> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> >> >> For policy questions, send mail to: >> Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> >> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> > > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > <emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used > formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
