When faced with a similar situation a few years ago in a smaller jurisdiction, the local AHJ had us send a formal request to the state fire marshal regarding why interpreting their existing code in light of the latest NFPA version made sense. We did and the state fire marshal blessed it. Mike Sherman Graco Inc.
Sent from Xfinity Connect App ------ Original Message ------ From: Joe Randolph To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Sent: October 30, 2020 at 1:35 PM Subject: Re: [PSES] NFPA Codes, law or not? Yes, apparently, the authority to impose an electrical code rests with the individual states (and sometimes individual jurisdictions with a given state). I’m not sure why, but there is probably some constitutional reason why this is controlled by the individual states rather than the Federal government. I did not mention this in my earlier attempt at providing a “simple answer,” but I believe certain states, such as California, have their own electrical code and do not simply call out NFPA 70. And, I think certain cities have their own codes. So, the individual states are not acting in unison. Scott points out another problem with the current situation of having local authority over the electrical code. Namely, that different jurisdictions use different editions of NFPA 70 as their local electric code. Updated editions of NFPA 70 are issued every three years. I work a lot with communication equipment that is covered by Chapter 8 of NFPA 70. Over last several years some significant changes have been made in Chapter 8, mostly in terms of revising outdated requirements to better address new communications technology. Significant changes were made in the 2017 edition, and again in the 2020 edition. Unfortunately, some jurisdictions are still using older versions, as early as the 2008 edition. Typically, the adoption of a specific edition requires a vote of the State Legislature, and they sometimes fail to update their laws when a new edition comes out. This makes it challenging to take advantage of the clarifications/improvements that have been incorporated into newer editions of NFPA 70. Fortunately, most electrical inspectors are open to considering the latest edition of NFPA 70, even if their local law refers to an earlier edition. However, they are not obligated to do so. Joe Randolph Telecom Design Consultant Randolph Telecom, Inc. 781-721-2848 (USA) j...@randolph-telecom.com (mailto:j...@randolph-telecom.com) http://www.randolph-telecom.com (http://www.randolph-telecom.com/) From: Scott Aldous [mailto:scottald...@google.com] Sent: Friday, October 30, 2020 11:41 AM To: Joe Randolph <j...@randolph-telecom.com> Cc: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] NFPA Codes, law or not? I agree with Joe. Since jurisdictions across the US do not adopt the same revision of NFPA 70 (https://www.nema.org/docs/default-source/technical-document-library/nec-adoption-map.pdf), mandating a single edition at the federal level could be problematic. On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 8:15 AM Joe Randolph <j...@randolph-telecom.com (mailto:j...@randolph-telecom.com)> wrote: > > Hi Doug: > > > > > > The short answer is that compliance with NFPA 70 is, in fact, the law in most > states and localities. > > > > > > Most states have passed laws that require compliance with NFPA 70. In these > states, when the electrical inspector visits a site, the code book used to > determine compliance with the state’s electrical code is NFPA 70. > > > > > > I think the situation is similar to the ITU standards, which are officially > called “Recommendations” and do not, by themselves, have the force of law. > However, the laws in many countries call out certain ITU standards. > > > > > > Similarly, UL standards in the USA are not, by themselves, legally binding. > However, many UL standards are called out by law by OSHA and in state > electrical codes (which typically call out NFPA 70). > > > > > > > > > Joe Randolph > > > Telecom Design Consultant > > > Randolph Telecom, Inc. > > > 781-721-2848 (tel:(781)%20721-2848) (USA) > > > j...@randolph-telecom.com (mailto:j...@randolph-telecom.com) > > > http://www.randolph-telecom.com (http://www.randolph-telecom.com/) > > > > > > From: Douglas Powell [mailto:doug...@gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, October 30, 2020 10:00 AM > To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG (mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG) > Subject: [PSES] NFPA Codes, law or not? > > > > > > My Friday Question, > > > > > > > > NFPA Codes, law or not? Officially the answer is, "No, these are not laws." > > > > > > > > I recently saw a clarification stating: > > > > > > "As a national consensus safety standard, NFPA 70 is not a law and it has > > not been incorporated into the Code of Federal Regulations. Therefore, > > compliance is not deemed mandatory. Even so, OSHA has cited NFPA 70 in > > cases where lack of compliance has resulted in a workplace accident." > > > > > > > > > > > The National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) is a nonprofit organization > and not a government entity. In the USA, possibly the best known published > document is the NFPA 70 which is the National Electric Code or NEC ®. And > indeed, this code has been translated and adopted in other countries in > places like Latin America > (https://www.nfpa.org/NEC/NEC-adoption-and-use/NEC-adoption-and-use-in-Latin-America). > Nevertheless, in my view, the whole system is bordering on becoming a legal > requirement, especially at the local level where Authorities Having > Jurisdiction (AHJs) adopt these into their local city and county codes. > > > > > > > > Occasionally a discussion is raised on electrical forums where someone wants > to point out that in this country any code which is officially mandated law > must be freely available for public use. NFPA does indeed offer a "free view" > but these are very deficient with regard to usability. > > > > > > > > The question then becomes, "Should these codes be law? > > > > > > > > Food for thought... > > > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > Douglas E Powell > > doug...@gmail.com (mailto:doug...@gmail.com) > http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01 > > > > > > > > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > <emc-p...@ieee.org (mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org)> > > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used > formats), large files, etc. > > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) (http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html) > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org (mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org)> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org (mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org)> > > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org (mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org)> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com (mailto:dhe...@gmail.com)> > > > > > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > <emc-p...@ieee.org (mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org)> > > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used > formats), large files, etc. > > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) (http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html) > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org (mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org)> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org (mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org)> > > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org (mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org)> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com (mailto:dhe...@gmail.com)> > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Manager | scottald...@google.com (mailto:scottald...@google.com) | 650-253-1994 - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org (mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org)> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) (http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org (mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org)> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org (mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org)> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org (mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org)> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com (mailto:dhe...@gmail.com)> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
