I don't normally pile one, typically I ignore the irrelevant messages. Hell, I
rarely even post unless I am fairly confident I have the answer to someone's
question. Normally I sit back, read and constantly learn from the information
shared on this mailing list - but I have had some unrealistic expectations
placed on me at work (my meat and potatoes job) recently which I stood up
against (successfully) and I want to support Stewart and Glenn as they
addressed this topic - it is an important one.
I don't know your complete situation - but I don't need to for the basic point,
but it sounds like you had work that presented itself which you decided to go
after thinking you could "slap" together a machine to allow you to perform the
task and make some money. While that is a commendable aspiration, with two
family members who work R&D, specifically in process automation and material
handling/quality inspection disciplines, the tool to complete the task
typically goes through numerous simulations and revisions before it even sees
it's first 'trial run'. Rarely is a one-shot attempt even taken, let alone
successful unless it's the tinyest thing. Personally, my benchtop mill has
been a work in progress for close to a year now (3 years if you count time
before I spent a single penny on hardware, though medical issues have slowed my
pace significantly), granted it's a hobbyist machine, but I do have an
aspiration to turn it into a prototyping tool to allow some of the ideas
rolling around in my head to actually make it into the marketplace and make me
some profit. Money is tight and I want the best return on my investment so
planning and simulating have been mandatory to make sure I don't purchase items
that won't live up to expectations. So far everything has worked as designed
and intended, and tuning has been the only real post implementation effort
required.
To bash a product outright on the mailing list is poor form - these messages
are archived and you in turn are leaving a trail that could hurt someone else's
livelihood. I see many posts about the products offered by the manufacturer
you're bashing and they are predominantly positive or kindly asking for
assistance to implement correctly. Maybe the item in question was ready, maybe
it wasn't, but ultimately the choice was yours to use it. If you wanted a plug
and play system, it sounds like an off the shelf CNC machine would have been
the better choice for you, but then you'd have spent a lot more and your profit
margin would have been significantly lower, if even positive. To aspire to
build a machine on a short schedule and expect to immediately turn around and
use it for a production job is admirable, and occasionally even achievable, but
the blame lies ultimately with you - thorough planning and testing are not
optional, especially with machinery as dangerous as what the majority of the
list deals with. I hope that you didn't screw over a client - not only for
your sake, but for HIS, if you promised something based on a perceived ability
rather than a proven one, again, that was your error. I am sorry for your loss
of this job, but instead of venting and slingling mud, stop, take a deep
breath, and learn from what you've done. Keep at the machine and I am
confident you will have a reliable machine that will pay back your investment
in time. And since open source is a collaborative effort - if there really is
a problem/lack of function with the hardware you bought - work with the
manufacturer to help them resolve it - that's the real point I wanted to make.
No, you won't get paid for it, but they probably will thank you on the list for
the community to see for any real help you provide them and that is a really
good feeling.
This is only my 2 cents, and in the current economy, that certainly isn't worth
all that much..
To everyone else who couldn't care less - I apologize for going off topic and
addressing etiquette, it gets mentioned from time to time, but this was a
lengthy message so I apologize. Every once in a while it seems like a reminder
that friendly and positive communications are not only prefered, but certainly
more effective.
And to round out my message on a positive note - THANK YOU TO EVERY VOLUNTEER
WHO HAS DONATED TIME AND MONEY TO THE EMC2 PROJECT AND TO EVERY MANUFACTURER
WHO HAS MADE AN EFFORT TO PRODUCE HARDWARE TO WORK WITH EMC2. YOUR HARD WORK
IS NOT UNAPPRECIATED.
<rant off>
Greg
www.distinctperspectives.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Stuart Stevenson
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 8:25 AM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Pissed off of <snip>
Senor Acosta,
I must agree with Mr. Edwards.
La problema es suyo. Empezo un projecto sin tiempo y education.
Ambos son muy costo.
On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 10:26 AM, Richard Acosta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> El 09/11/08 18:55, noel escribió:
>> Richard,
>> I'm a happy and satisfied Mesanet customer.
>> I use a 5i20, 7i33 and 7i37. with the 'stock' and 'proven' EMC2
>> configurations.
>> I have stayed away from the 7i43 until the EMC2 driver and configurations
>> are thoroughly worked out
> Hi Noel, i don't doubt you're right and i think there must be some (or a
> lot of) people using the same hardware that i'm.
>
> To everyone else: I asked for help here on this group and despite the
> good will and help of the people i could'nt make it work, which has led
> me to loose time, money and a very important work.
> I choose EMC because of the freedom part, and 7i43 because emc2 claims
> it work.
I question your 'freedom' claim here. The word 'libre' is a better
choice. I understand the choice.
Regarding the 7i43, I have never seen any plug-n-play claims. For
that matter, I have never seen any PNP claims connected to the EMC2
project.
> Then i read manuals and help wich made me think it was all working, and
> then i decided to choose this board.
> If at any place i would have read that the board is not working
> completely i could have choose another option, but i didn't find it.
Agreed, the EMC2 documentation is less than complete. I have
commercial control documentation that is as complete as it will ever
get. The comercial control documentation is not complete. At least the
developers of EMC, (all volunteers) I might add, will address any and
all concerns very rapidly. The EMC developers, again I might add (they
are all volunteers), will work on whatever problem you present as soon
as they can understand the problem. Try that with any of the
commercial control developers. After you give them your credit card
number you will receive an incident number. They will call you back in
a little while (a day to a week) to find out a little more. Remember
now, they have your credit card number and will charge your credit
card for taking the time to ask you questions and provide answers to
you. This without a guarantee of a solution. Most of the time their
solution is 'let me send a technician to your place' (not free).
>
> Those who was trying to help me asked for my config files, wich i had
> make by reading plus test and error since there is no clear sample, but
> i can't keep losing time on investigating, i had to make this work more
> than a couple months ago, and i lost a very important work because of
> this, plus time, plus money.
> I think it would be so much easier if you provide those files, or at
> least some clear paths to use the appropriate configs.
It is not possible to provide config files for every machine
possibility. You must educate yourself to provide that. You can
consider the 'losing time on investigating' is the price of your
education and the cost of EMC2.
>
> I'll give it a last try, since it seems Ted Hyde has it working, and he
> has a VIA chipset plus the same card (400k) than i.
> Thanks everyone for your patience, but anyway think that i have lost
> this job because the lack of clear info.
> Again thanks.
>
Los siento su perdio la oportunidad.
I hope you will continue with the EMC2 project. I would recommend
trading the cards with Mesa. This would get you up and running much
quicker.
Choosing a card under development made it certain to take more time.
The time spent learning EMC2 and the related hardware is a very
worthwhile investment. This is where the real 'freedom' begins. As you
learn what EMC2 can do your mind will expand with possibilities.
EMC2 can 'rule' the world (or at least 'control' it).
Stuart
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