On Sun, 2011-06-12 at 14:33 -0700, Mike Payson wrote: > On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 10:42 AM, Ed Nisley <ed.08.nis...@pobox.com> wrote: > > > On Sat, 2011-06-11 at 23:54 -0700, Mike Payson wrote: > > > that is a limitation of the Makerbot firmware. > > > > As nearly as I can tell, ReplicatorG has become sufficiently > > intertwingled with the firmware that it's best to not stray too far from > > the beaten path, so I'll continue to use the 2.7 firmware until things > > settle down a bit. RepG 24 has 17 different drivers for various > > combinations of machines / firmware / configurations and it's not at all > > clear what works with what. > > > > True, which is why I recommend avoiding Makerbot stuff all together. I used > RepG and Gen3 electronics on my first bot, but I have since switched to > RepSnapper & Sprinter on Sanguinololu, and I get far better results. You are > correct, though, from everything I hear, RepG is a bad choice to use with > anything other than the Makerbot firmware. > > > > I used to like being a beta tester, but I've gotten over it... > > > > The funny thing about this comment is after your first post, I almost posetd > a link to your own blog (before I realized it was your blog) pointing out > some of the design flaws in the Makerbot stuff. From what I can tell, > Makerbot doesn't have beta testers, their philosophy seems to be "ship it, > then sell them an upgrade when they complain". Microsoft business model. Hmmmm.
> > I am actually pretty surprised to see that you seem to be a bit of a > Makerbot champion, considering how critical you are of many of their > technical decisions on your blog. > > > integrated MCU based driver > > > > The problem with that is economics: right now, the hardware cost for the > > microcontroller(s) and motherboards has run up against the cost of an > > ATX system board. In fact, the MBI retail price for the Ardino / > > Motherboard / Extruder Controller exceeds the full-up Atom I'm using > > with the Sherline. > > > > This is somewhat true if you are looking at one of the boards that uses an > Arduino, and is definitely true if you use the overpriced Makerbot > electronics, but I have never understood the justification for buying a $65 > board just to get the $10 chip on it. I currently run Sanguinololu, which > costs about $100 complete including the four stepper drivers. > > http://reprap.org/wiki/Sanguinololu > > > > There's not all that much horsepower in an 8-bit microcontroller and the > > firmware is bumping up against those limits, too. I expect the next > > generation will use an ARM or some such, at the economics will > > definitely favor a commodity PC and a very cheap analog interface board; > > you need pretty much the same stepper drivers for either one. > > > > I never said anything about 8-bit. :-) Like I said, watch for a big > improvement in the usability when the next gen electronics ship in a couple > months. The cost should still remain under $100 including stepper drivers. > (BTW: ARM chips are cheaper than an 8-bit ATMega). > > All the firmware does is eat G-Code and spit out parts; that's exactly > > what EMC2 does with my Sherline mill. I think it'd be a whole lot easier > > and less expensive to use EMC2 for motion control than to re-invent all > > those functions and jam them into an Arduino. > > > You can certainly get a MiniITX board for around $50 (Though finding one > with a Parallel port is becoming more difficult). Then you have to add > memory for anouther $25, a hard drive, a dedicated power supply, probably a > case of some sort. All told, you are probably going to spend $200 or more on > a MiniITX system before you ever think about adding the parallel interface, > the stepper drivers, and the dedicated power supply. > > > > Plus, you'd get a much > > better user interface, bigger displays, better keyboards, and a much > > more stable system for free. > > > > EMC = RepG = RepSnapper. EMC is not the same as the electronics, so you > cannot say "Plus, you'd get a much better user interface, bigger displays, > better keyboards" since those same points are true of the RepRap today with > the host software. I do agree that EMC is more stable, but things are > rapidly improving on that front. > > And of course you don't really get these things for free. Most users will > not want to run Ubuntu as their normal desktop OS, nor will they want to > reboot into EMC every time they want to make a print, so that means you have > to buy each of these items and dedicate them to the printer. Suddenly your > $200 is at $300 or more, still without the stepper drivers, parallel > interface and PSU. On the RepRap, these things truly are free since they use > your existng PC, not a dedicated one. > > The fact that the "computer" inside the printer is a PC running EMC2, > > instead of a microcontroller running something else, is largely > > irrelevant. From the outside, you feed either printer with G-Code from > > Skeinforge it produces parts; the advantage of using EMC2 is that > > developers can concentrate on improving *printing* rather then > > reinventing motion control / UI wheels. > > > > You assume the UI model is not going to change. There are developments > underway that will change the fundamental way people interact with their > printers. It won't be quite as simple as selecting "Print" in your CAD > program, but it will be much easier than it is today. One benefit of these > changes will be exactly what you suggest... There will be much less need to > focus on improving the host, allowing people to focus on improving the > printers and the code that drives them. > > I'd like to do it just to show how it works, but ... not right now. > > > You can print on EMC today. Several people use it already, and I assume the > number will continue to grow. But the vast majority of the RepRap community > will never switch to EMC simply because their are too many disadvantages to > it compared to the current model of integrated electronics (the current > model, but not necessarily the current generation). > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content > authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image > Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev > _______________________________________________ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev _______________________________________________ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
