Hi, 2017-10-18 9:35 GMT+09:00 Carsten Haitzler <ras...@rasterman.com>:
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2017 11:18:43 +0000 Andrew Williams <a...@andywilliams.me> > said: > > > Hi, > > > > There is a concerted effort now to try and fix up the documentation of > EFL > > for devs / contributors and for users of our apps. > > The dev portion of this is obviously largely based around the interfaces > > work as everything will be "legacy" at some point in the near future. > > We only have a limited time available to get all this done and I think we > > should be able to publish the docs at completion if not before. > > Therefore it is becoming more important to figure out where we are going > to > > get to, by when (or at least a target that we can all agree on). > > > > Given that the parent ticket https://phab.enlightenment.org/T5301 was > > created in March and we're in October now with around 1/3 - 1/2 of the > work > > done (guesstimating here as there is no obvious way to see how much > > progress we are making (only about 1/5 of tickets are closed off)) and > even > > in the last month we are adding new sub-tasks twice as fast as we are > > closing tickets it seems like an impractical target to get any sort of > > stable interfaces API subset ready for the end of the year. > Blue/Green tickets are not a high priority, so I'll consider only the red tickets here. What's missing here is a progress on each ticket. Example: - T5363 Cleanup elm_widget.eo This is not closed yet. But I think I made a lot of progress on it. I just updated the ticket to show where I think we're standing on this. I'd say this task is more than ~80% complete. The same applies to quite a few other tickets as well: - T5361 Cleanup elm_slider.eo - T5359 Refactor elm_panes - T5315 Refactoring Edje/Elm_Layout - T5329 Cleanup elm_general.eot etc... Unfortunately it would be correct to say that a lot of the remaining tickets haven't seen any significant progress in master yet. For (WAY TOO) many I am still waiting for something to review. We are making progress, but it is much slower than I was hoping for. > > I really think we need to get a handle on this - agree what *must* be > done > > to even have a "ready to start being used" API so we can focus and > finally > > get something out of the door to build on. > > My proposal is this: A new parent ticket is created for "Nice to have > > Interfaces" and another for "Not first release Interfaces" and we move > > everything off that main ticket that is non-essential. Only then will we > > get a feeling for what remains. > > > > Personally I find moving targets difficult to work to and very morale > > draining - I'd be very surprised if there are not others out there > feeling > > the same way. > > Thanks, and as always please fire your thoughts back team :). > > Andrew > > i think that's is what T5301 is. it's a must have. we're already ignoring > many > things like eldbus, efreet, etc. etc. ... > > the fact that new things are turning up as we explore the problems and so > on is > totally expected. you can't predict everything in advance. you notice at e > dev > day i already wanted to cut things like cedric's "eo file content for style > specs" etc. as i believe this can be done later without affecting the api > in an > incompatible way. > > > On Tue, 12 Sep 2017 at 12:44 Carsten Haitzler <ras...@rasterman.com> > wrote: > > > > > On Tue, 12 Sep 2017 09:50:18 +0000 Andrew Williams < > a...@andywilliams.me> > > > said: > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > This is good to hear. Reflecting on it I think what I missed was the > > > > clarity that 1.21 would not be released until these interfaces are > > > stable. > > > > > > Actually that's not set in stone. We may release a 1.21 and defer > > > interfaces > > > for 1.22. It depends on timing and where things get to by what time. > The > > > way we > > > are doing things, interfaces is an OPTIONAL blocker for a release. It's > > > not a > > > technical one. The GOAL is to have 1.21 by end of year or so with > > > interfaces > > > "ready to begin to be used as a stable API". > > > > > > > Having been looking for this since 1.19 I'm thrilled but wonder if > > > everyone > > > > is on the same page (maybe it was only clear within Samsung crew?). > > > Should > > > > we be documenting somewhere like an upcoming releases page that, > whilst > > > > normally a timed cycle, for this release we have a specific goal in > mind > > > > rather than a date? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Andy > > > > On Mon, 21 Aug 2017 at 13:24, Carsten Haitzler <ras...@rasterman.com > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 21 Aug 2017 12:08:46 +0000 Andrew Williams < > > > a...@andywilliams.me> > > > > > said: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > In a word no. What that is is an ever growing list of work we > would > > > like > > > > > to > > > > > > get done. That's not really a planning tool it's a log. > > > > > > Planning for what goes into a release is a different beast - we > make > > > a > > > > > list > > > > > > of what's required, agree on it and start working through. > > > > > > > > > > that actually is the list of things to go into 1.21 (efl interfaces > > > "done" > > > > > release)... :) > > > > > > > > > > > Surely in planning for a release you need either a) a delivery > date > > > and a > > > > > > prioritised list or b) a requirements list and an agreed scope. > > > > > > A list of things that gets added to as we work through is not > either > > > of > > > > > > those - the list could grow forever and never get finished... > > > > > > > > > > things are discovered as the work is done. the goal is clear make > > > eo/efl > > > > > interfaces stable and ready to use for application devs". > > > > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > On Mon, 21 Aug 2017 at 11:41, Carsten Haitzler < > ras...@rasterman.com > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 15 Jul 2017 20:12:34 +0000 Andrew Williams < > > > > > a...@andywilliams.me> > > > > > > > said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > just saying... isn't > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://phab.enlightenment.org/T5301 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > good enough? i mean it does what's needed. tacks a todo list > and > > > even > > > > > > > dependencies... etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi team, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As many would probably agree by now we have a very high > ticket > > > volume > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > is rather hard to manage... Whilst folk are doing a great > job of > > > > > > > > marshalling the incoming tasks I think that some more > structure > > > would > > > > > > > help > > > > > > > > us to see what is needed in each area and for the next > release > > > etc... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In preparation for 1.21 I would like to start working on > this a > > > > > little to > > > > > > > > help us manage the work for our next release (especially as > it > > > will > > > > > be > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > eo interfaces release!) and propose to do the following in > phab, > > > as > > > > > it is > > > > > > > > otherwise managing to keep track well: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Add a milestone to efl phab project for the next release - > this > > > > > will be > > > > > > > > used to mark the issues we have agreed must go into the next > > > release > > > > > > > > * Add sub projects for each area of EFL so we can better > > > categorise > > > > > the > > > > > > > > tasks (we can either use EFL or a "common" subproject for > those > > > that > > > > > > > apply > > > > > > > > to all > > > > > > > > * efl-eina > > > > > > > > * efl-eolian > > > > > > > > * efl-canvas > > > > > > > > * efl-canvas-layout > > > > > > > > * efl-ui > > > > > > > > (etc etc) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Notice the use of the new namespaces for everything in the > > > > > interfaces - > > > > > > > > this is surely how we should be thinking going forward :) > > > > > > > > If we are able to split things out a bit more then we can > have > > > more > > > > > > > people > > > > > > > > assigned to projects with fewer issues per project. > > > > > > > > Then the milestone for release can be the main point of > concern > > > for a > > > > > > > > release manager :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wanted to throw the concept out to the list before doing > > > anything > > > > > in > > > > > > > case > > > > > > > > there are any concerns with this approach that I may have > missed? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks :) > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > http://andywilliams.me > > > > > > > > http://ajwillia.ms > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------------ > > > > > > > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's > most > > > > > > > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > > > > > > > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment- > devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" > > > > > -------------- > > > > > > > The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) ras...@rasterman.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > http://andywilliams.me > > > > > > http://ajwillia.ms > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" > > > -------------- > > > > > The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) ras...@rasterman.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > http://andywilliams.me > > > > http://ajwillia.ms > > > > > > > > > -- > > > ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" > -------------- > > > Carsten Haitzler - ras...@rasterman.com > > > > > > -- > > http://andywilliams.me > > http://ajwillia.ms > > > -- > ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -------------- > Carsten Haitzler - ras...@rasterman.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > _______________________________________________ > enlightenment-devel mailing list > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > -- Jean-Philippe André ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
