On Thursday, 08 October 2009, at 11:51:32 (+1100), Carsten Haitzler wrote: > ok. time to chime in. waaay waaay back... back in the early days. no > one other than motif set those hints. many others understood them > and did it so apps that asked for no borders got them, but NO ONE > claims to be a motif. icewm, sawfish, windowmaker, ... ALL of these > understand mwm hints, and display no borders. i can find other wm's > that did the same. metacity is a modern one for example. but e did > too (e14/15/16 days). support the hint and not provide motif wm info > hints. no one set motif wm info because no apps required it - they > ASSUMED mwm hint support. that was the actual common - if not 100% > behavior case (it was universal that i saw). > > so as such history says "doesn't matter if the motif wm info hint is > there, the wm probably supports it, and likely hasnt set that hint" > as NO ONE sets it other than mwm (that i know of or can find) out of > all the wm's that actually support it. if you google for > _MOTIF_WM_INFO you will find a tonne of distro and app bug report > systems all patching out the motif wm info checks from eterm (and > urxvt) as they simply dont work in the common case.
They're actually all from the same few people/threads. (I did that search myself.) > i'm not saying that the eterm code is technically wrong. the problem > is you are not going to go change 5, 6, 7, 8 or more wm's to > suddenly provide the _MOTIF_WM_INFO hints. everyone is patching the > reverse. removing it as it is "moot" because the wm's "everyone > uses" (notice in quotes) suports the hints, but doesnt advertise > being mwm. Well, something does. On my system, and every system I've ever used, something sets that property. Maybe it's in X itself; I always assumed it was E, but maybe not. > now i'd say that the sensible thing would be to remove the mwm info > property checks as the "real world" doesnt work like that. standards > or no standards, when the vast majority of the world is working > counter to the standard, the standard is bunk. it is no standard > anymore. standards are in the end what the vast majority of software > actually does. > > so again - don't get this wrong. im not saying you are technically > wrong. the code simply gets in the way of most users by being to > pedantic. people are actively patching it out and working around it > just for eterm. they are not patching their wm's. i think the time > has come to just let this one go and forget about being pedantic. I need something to check for; otherwise, I can't be assured of a borderless window just because I ask for one. I see _MOTIF_WM_HINTS in ecore_x. Should I be checking for that instead? Michael -- Michael Jennings (a.k.a. KainX) http://www.kainx.org/ <m...@kainx.org> Linux Server/Cluster Admin, LBL.gov Author, Eterm (www.eterm.org) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "She had a need to feel the thunder, to chase the lightning from the sky, to watch a storm with all its wonder raging in her lover's eyes. She had to ride the heat of passion like a comet burning bright, rushing headlong in the wind, down where only dreams have been, burning both ends of the night." -- Garth Brooks, "That Summer" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference _______________________________________________ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
